Why do Michelin restaurants charge a service fee....

[dowie]

On the flip side, if the restaurant just upped costs by 10% they would have to pay increased NI rates, increased pension costs. Realistically the extra "profit" would just go to the owners/shareholders.

Not necessarily, if it is a mandatory service charge applied to the bill that OP is talking about then NI, pension etc... deductions still apply, that's different to say handing the waiter a discretionary tip.

Tips at work

Tips at work do not count towards the National Minimum Wage - tips and tax, what your employer has to do, advice and help, cash in hand payments

www.gov.uk

Service charges

These are added to the bill before it’s given to the customer.

If the charge is compulsory, it’s not a tip so if your employer gives it to you, it’s treated in the same way as your wages.

If it’s voluntary, you pay tax and National Insurance in the same way as for tips.

 

[Scam]

I've eaten in dozens of US restaurants and they are no better than anywhere else. Where you get that from is anyone's guess.

No need to guess. That’ll be the three years I lived there plus regular work travel over the last seven years..

I don’t really know what the solution is either way. It’s frustrating having service included on a bill but I’ve never been shy to ask for it taken off if it wasn’t deserved. On the flip side, servers expecting/needing a tip to survive isn’t good economics either.

I do think service in the UK is generally terrible though.

 

[Malevolence]

I don't tip, simple as that. And if a service charge is added to the bill I ask for it to be removed.

 

[Scam]

I don't tip, simple as that. And if a service charge is added to the bill I ask for it to be removed.

Do you ever go back to the same places?

 

[m@rty]

Do you ever go back to the same places?

Unlikely unless he likes free special sauce with his tipless meal

 

[soundb0y]

I don't tip, simple as that. And if a service charge is added to the bill I ask for it to be removed.

I'll leave a tip if someone does something above and beyond or more likely if I've got some shrapnel left over after paying in cash.

Service charges just wind me up and I ask to remove them or just leave cash minus the charge.

 

[BUDFORCE]

Wetherspoons don't have a service charge, job done.

 

[stuman]

Also to add to this mess - why is it a percentage of my bill? It’s not like they give better service if I order the most expensive items vs side salad.

 

[aVdub]

Wetherspoons don't have a service charge, job done.

You wait ill they get people experienced in using microwaves and doing serving stuff and they might slip in a 0.000002% service charge

 

[dirtychinchilla]

What do you do in your role that is way over and above what others in similar roles with similar training do?
Service charges are fundamentally similar to commissions vs base pay in sales roles, except that you don't get them for good performance but rather lose them for poor performance.

This seems highly relevant. If it's a performance-based part of your salary, it makes complete sense to be tipped. It's not like you go into a restaurant expecting not to tip.

 

[bigmike20vt]

This seems highly relevant. If it's a performance-based part of your salary, it makes complete sense to be tipped. It's not like you go into a restaurant expecting not to tip.

not really...... it is the employers job to pay the salary. someone mentioned it is like sales.... i disagree.... if i go to VW i buy a car.

now perhaps the sales person is really good and sells twice as many cars as their mate they work with.... even so, i am not gonna pay more for that privilege, the bonus comes from the employer based on the fact that that employee made them more money.

in a restaurant the same is true. if the person who serves me does a really good job, or the chef gives me a good meal, then i will give good feedback on them as well as make return visits and reccomened to my friends and family.. it is the landlords / managers job to keep an eye on such things and reward their staff accordingly. - or at least it should be imo.

OTOH if the food / service is rubbish then i absolutely wont go back, will tell people not to go and if the food/service was bad enough refuse to pay at least part of the bill.

like i said, i do tip because it is how the system works.............. i think it is fundamentally wrong however and on top of that would never tip the recommended 15%!.

this whole mentality seems to be based around "if you dont tip people will be rubbish at their job". imo that is the cart before the horse. A person should be paid a fair days pay for a fair days work. IF they are not doing a good job they should be retrained or let go. I am not against bonuses from the employer for doing really well.... but the base expectation is you do a competent job because that is what you are paid to do.

Alternatively... how about this. Let me go to the bar at a restraunt and pick up my own beer from the bar (sorry but pouring it is the least they can do to earn their salary) and equally i will pick up my cutlery and condements as well if need be..... those who want a table service could agree a 15% surcharge. win win.

 

[dowie]

Service charges are fundamentally similar to commissions vs base pay in sales roles, except that you don't get them for good performance but rather lose them for poor performance.

That's not true, good performance = more service charge even when it's a fixed %. People seem to miss that being a waiter is, at least in part, a sales role. In the case of a mandatory fixed % service charge, it is basically identical to a sales commission, in the case of an optional one (essentially a tip) then there is a difference in that the customer could stiff the waiter but it's still not true that in the general case there you don't get them for good performance, in the general case people tip the expected amount and that's base don the bill ergo acts like a commission.

A waiter can suggest alternatives if something isn't available and the customer may otherwise leave and not make a purchase, the waiter will sell starters that perhaps the customer wasn't planning on buying or will suggest good (more expensive) wines to pair with a dish, ensure the glasses are refilled promptly and hope to sell a bit more and likewise will come round and sell the deserts once the main is finished. They'll also try and be as efficient as possible so that they can get more covers through on the tables they're responsible for ergo selling more food.

Likewise, someone selling computers may have a customer who needs a laptop before starting uni, their job is to try and sell them the best one they can afford and, often more importantly, push the add-ons like an extended warranty or insurance etc. (much like a waiter pushing the starters or deserts).

 

[robj20]

What do you do in your role that is way over and above what others in similar roles with similar training do?
Service charges are fundamentally similar to commissions vs base pay in sales roles, except that you don't get them for good performance but rather lose them for poor performance.


And yet a Michelin place at 20x* will give you better service than a place that costs 30x.
The issue is that the shape of that service is different for every person. Some places will offer 'good' service as 'standard', whereas the Michelin service is all about tailoring that service to the individual guest.

*You're probably still going to the wrong places, incidentally. I'd normally expect about £65pp for a five course Michelin meal. Wine depends greatly on what you order, but is always expensive wherever you go, unless you like the cheap ****.

I just work hard and put in a lot of effort, hence why I got an amazing bonus and pay rise while others got no bonus and less than inflation pay rise.
I don't require the customers to add to my pay.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

not really...... it is the employers job to pay the salary. someone mentioned it is like sales.... i disagree.... if i go to VW i buy a car.

now perhaps the sales person is really good and sells twice as many cars as their mate they work with.... even so, i am not gonna pay more for that privilege, the bonus comes from the employer based on the fact that that employee made them more money.

in a restaurant the same is true. if the person who serves me does a really good job, or the chef gives me a good meal, then i will give good feedback on them as well as make return visits and reccomened to my friends and family.. it is the landlords / managers job to keep an eye on such things and reward their staff accordingly. - or at least it should be imo.

OTOH if the food / service is rubbish then i absolutely wont go back, will tell people not to go and if the food/service was bad enough refuse to pay at least part of the bill.

like i said, i do tip because it is how the system works.............. i think it is fundamentally wrong however and on top of that would never tip the recommended 15%!.

this whole mentality seems to be based around "if you dont tip people will be rubbish at their job". imo that is the cart before the horse. A person should be paid a fair days pay for a fair days work. IF they are not doing a good job they should be retrained or let go. I am not against bonuses from the employer for doing really well.... but the base expectation is you do a competent job because that is what you are paid to do.

Alternatively... how about this. Let me go to the bar at a restraunt and pick up my own beer from the bar (sorry but pouring it is the least they can do to earn their salary) and equally i will pick up my cutlery and condements as well if need be..... those who want a table service could agree a 15% surcharge. win win.

Good point. I hadn't thought of that angle. Although it does seem like the tip is just part of the cost of attending a restaurant.

 

[Orangeade]

I dislike service charges a lot, should just be baked into the price, or reserved for very large groups. I was abroad only a few days ago with some people and the bill was a few thousand and they tacked on a 10% service charge. Which ironically felt tacky as they must have assumed we would not leave a tip (which is stupid as our corporate policy depending on region allows for 10-20% tipping as I'm sure is the case for most companies and they should have known that).

 

[EvilRob]

I would rather we get rid of service charges and bake them in to price of goods, but as long as they are clearly stated in advance (and they almost always are) then I don't mind paying them.