Why do we spell licence / license differently?

VIRII · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:32

Masterdog said:
No, I'm saying there are other words in existence back then that we've changed since, just like the Americans have (the aforementioned gaol being one of them).

The thread is about the word "licence" not about the word "gaol".
So it is all rather irrelevent.

Inquisitor · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:34

VIRII said:
Are you saying that the word "licence" was invented AFTER we colonised (with an s) America?

That's a single example.
Do you actually know when the spelling was standardised? It may have been after the colonisation of America.
You haven't even answered his question.

Vonhelmet · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:34

VIRII said:
So as the thread title is "Why do *we* spell licence / license differently?" the answer is as stated *we* do NOT. Hence it is incorrect.

At risk of baiting your wrath, I still can't find any link to suggest that we used to use one word for both the noun and verb, which we then changed as a result of American influence.

All the dictionaries I've looked at have listed license as a verb and licence as a noun, for UK English.

Inquisitor · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:39

VIRII said:
Here? Do you mean in the UK? Have you seen the thread title? It uses the word "we". Do you think that refers to a bunch of British people or a bunch of American people? By your use of "here" I assume you mean British people.

Yup.

VIRII said:
the answer is as stated *we* do NOT. Hence it is incorrect.

Actually, you're wrong. At least according to several English dictionaries, including Collins and the OED.

VIRII · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:41

Inquisitor said:
That's a single example.

Do you actually know when the spelling was standardised? It may have been after the colonisation of America.

You haven't even answered his question.

Spellings were standardised (with an s) on 15th April 1755 by Samuel Johnson according to wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Dictionary_of_the_English_Language

Unless of course Blackadder really did burn the manuscript

VIRII · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:43

vonhelmet said:
At risk of baiting your wrath, I still can't find any link to suggest that we used to use one word for both the noun and verb, which we then changed as a result of American influence.

All the dictionaries I've looked at have listed license as a verb and licence as a noun, for UK English.

I've looked a bit deeper and I think you are correct

I just hope Shackley has a box of tissues handy to wipe away his excitement (tears of course).

It seems the Americans use the "s" for verb and noun in all cases.
Canadians use the "c" for verb and noun in all cases.
English use "c" for noun and "s" for verb.

Damned English why can't they just do it sensibly like the yanks hmmmm!

VIRII · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:44

Inquisitor said:
Actually, you're wrong. At least according to several English dictionaries, including Collins and the OED.

Yup I am. Damn that is twice now in all these years

Inquisitor · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:46

VIRII said:
Spellings were standardised (with an s) on 15th April 1755 by Samuel Johnson according to wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Dictionary_of_the_English_Language

Unless of course Blackadder really did burn the manuscript

So, the standardisation occurred after the colonisation of the Americas.

Rich_L · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:50

Just to confirm

Scanned in from the OED at work

VIRII · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:55

Rich_L said:
Just to confirm

Scanned in from the OED at work

Hmmmmm I see your OED has a "z" in authorise........
Seems the OED has been americaniSed and is no longer a reliable source of Englishness.
I refer you to the slightly less americaniSed and therefore superior Cambridge dictionary (sadly not totally US free though)

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=4956&dict=CALD

VIRII · 20 Jul 2007 at 15:56

Inquisitor said:
So, the standardisation occurred after the colonisation of the Americas.

But not before we stopped running America in 1775.......

Rich_L · 20 Jul 2007 at 16:00

Seems the OED has been americaniSed and is no longer a reliable source of Englishness.

I'm not sure whether that's tongue-in-cheek, but by their very own admission dictionaries are not prescriptive, but rather they reflect the common meanings and spellings of words in the language at the time of print - they correctly acknowledge the fact that language is a fluid entity.

I refer you to the slightly less americaniSed and therefore superior Cambridge dictionary (sadly not totally US free though)

What an odd link to give - it states that authorize is a correct spelling? :confused:

dirtydog · 20 Jul 2007 at 16:02

VIRII said:
Hmmmmm I see your OED has a "z" in authorise........
Seems the OED has been americaniSed and is no longer a reliable source of Englishness.
I refer you to the slightly less americaniSed and therefore superior Cambridge dictionary (sadly not totally US free though)

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=4956&dict=CALD

Actually ise and ize are both legitimate British English, and ize used to be in common usage in Britain in the past. I believe ize was used here before it was used in America, and ise is a relatively recent change. Deadly Ferret favours the 'ize' usage today, as I recall

VIRII · 20 Jul 2007 at 16:03

Rich_L said:
I'm not sure whether that's tongue-in-cheek, but by their very own admission dictionaries are not prescriptive, but rather they reflect the common meanings and spellings of words in the language at the time of print - they correctly acknowledge the fact that language is a fluid entity.

It was supposed to be amuZing. I was wrong about licence (although I secretly suspect I am in fact right and that these modern online dictionaries are really controlled by some American New World Order who seek to impose their inferior spellingZ on us all).
I'll look out a real dictionary that agrees with me and scan that in

VIRII · 20 Jul 2007 at 16:04

Rich_L said:
I'm not sure whether that's tongue-in-cheek, but by their very own admission dictionaries are not prescriptive, but rather they reflect the common meanings and spellings of words in the language at the time of print - they correctly acknowledge the fact that language is a fluid entity.

What an odd link to give - it states that authorize is a correct spelling?

It states "authorize" usually "authorise" in the UK.

cut and paste from the link:

Definition
authorize, UK USUALLY authorise Show phonetics
verb [T]

Vonhelmet · 20 Jul 2007 at 16:05

It can actually be quite horrifying to find that apparently disgusting uses of the English language are perfectly acceptable.

A personal example is the use of impact as a verb. I think this should be punishable by death, but apparently it's been standard English usage since the 16th Century or something

VIRII · 20 Jul 2007 at 16:06

vonhelmet said:
It can actually be quite horrifying to find that apparently disgusting uses of the English language are perfectly acceptable.

A personal example is the use of impact as a verb. I think this should be punishable by death, but apparently it's been standard English usage since the 16th Century or something

I'm suffering palpatations from the horrors of the "z" useage

Masterdog · 20 Jul 2007 at 16:11

My gripe is with redundancy. "A tragic death", for example. Is there any other kind?
Oh, and people who say "it was literally..." and then something that it wasn't literally in any way. "He drank so much red bull he was literally climbing up the walls." (unless, of course, he was climbing up the walls, which is rare).
Anyway, this is getting OT now so I'll shut up.

Inquisitor · 20 Jul 2007 at 16:14

Masterdog said:
My gripe is with redundancy.

Tautology

dirtydog · 20 Jul 2007 at 16:16

Masterdog said:
My gripe is with redundancy. "A tragic death", for example. Is there any other kind?

Absolutely, depending on who it is who has died