Why does a 10900K FEEL faster than a 13900K?

[jigger]

If its a windows problem why am i not seeing it?

Win 11.

AMD chip?

 

[Wing-Man]

AMD chip?

if the problem was windows, the CPU in use shouldn't matter?

 

[Bencher]

I've had some slowdowns which I assumed were because of the thread director not knowing what to do. They are very uncommon, like once or twice a month, happens when alt tabbing to a browser and it immediately fixes itself when you alt tab again.

What the video shows there seems pretty consistent and reproducible, that's weird. Never had anything like that.

 

[AthlonXP1800]

Windows 10/11 is certainly a large part of it. It isn't unusual to boot up one of my Windows 10 systems and it is stuttery when I'm trying to get on with tasks because of background processes doing telemetry, maintenance/"optimisation", compatibility, etc. stuff for a good few minutes often using 100% of one CPU core for extended periods - something I never get with my Windows 7 systems. (Definitely not malware, etc.). But that happens with any CPU not just 11th gen Intels onwards.

I definitely notice a difference in overall system latency between older stuff and 11th gen onwards though, not to the extent of these videos, etc. but definitely something there. I've posted about it a few times in the past.

I watched 2 parts videos 3 times and spend 4 days read thousand of comments looking for clues.

I never had delayed issues which you and Brian from Tech Yes City had experienced with Windows 11.

Found 1 interesting comment:

@ehs03y3ol
3 days ago
I'm having this latency desktop issue from Core 2 Duo era. All my builds had in common one thing: NVIDIA GPU's. And it seems, it is true. Some hardware combinations with NVIDIA GPU's has terrible a terrible desktop latency. Recently I bought some Ivy Bridges, and with Intel GPU, they are amazing and responsive. Tested this with a GT 730 and the latency is back. I think in the case of Intel iGPU it makes sense as long they do use a internal bridge different than PCIe.

He had same issue in around 2006 with Core 2 Duo with Windows XP SP2 so Windows 10/11 are certainly not a large part of it, they did not existed in 2006.

Now you talked about microshutter in last post then I got an idea and googled for more clues and found something.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Maybe Timer Resolution has something to do with it caused hardware timer bug messed up? Also maybe that could be possible strange reason 1 of your core went up 100% for extended periods.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Windows System Timer Tool

Little tool to check and modify the windows system timer. If you want to know what this is about, you should read this article: Windows Timer Resolution: Megawatts Wasted The matter is in my opinion l

vvvv.org

Timer Resolution - Download for free

Download Timer Resolution for free. Timer Resolution helps you to manipulate the FPS and improve overall Gaming experience.

timerresolution.com

Timer Resolution – Lucas Hale

People who had issues ran tool found timer resolution was set to 0.5ms or 15ms. Windows 7, 8, 10 and 11 default timer resolution should be set at 1ms, I downloaded the tool and ran to see what my Windows 11 timer is and surprised it was set correctly to 1ms. That explained why majority of people like me never had issues with both Windows 10 and 11 since 2015.

Found people at gearspace forum who used audio and video productions watched Tech Yes City videos would not able to reproduced same delayed bugs in Adobe Premiere Pro on their 12th gen system.

Gearspace.com - View Single Post - DAWBench DSP / VI Universal - Cross Platform DAW Benchmarks :

Post 16610682 -Forum for professional and amateur recording engineers to share techniques and advice.

gearspace.com

They did not had same issue so their systems timer resolution must be set correctly to 1ms.

 

[Rroff]

Also maybe that could be possible strange reason 1 of your core went up 100% for extended periods.

That is 100% down to Windows 10/11 components - I can see in task manager/process explorer/resource monitor what is going on and it is 100% Windows doing various background processes.

Maybe Timer Resolution has something to do with it caused hardware timer bug messed up? Also maybe that could be possible strange reason 1 of your core went up 100% for extended periods.

Timer resolution and core parking can have something to do with it - though 10/11 have more advanced routines built in to handle that - it is something I'm fairly aware of as games like Battlefield 4 can be stuttery on some systems unless you tweak those aspects. That isn't the problem here though - it is 100% something down to the way CPUs newer than 10th gen Intels work. My 10870H laptop doesn't exhibit it and is a snappier experience despite having some DPC latency issues of its own due to not great drivers

 

[kute]

my 7600x feels so much snappier than my 7800x3d

edit: and does anyone know why hwinfo takes like 3x as long to load on my 7800x3d as it did on the 7600x?

 

[Rroff]

Bit of a thread bump with having just done a 14th gen build.

I had a bit of dread going into this build as I've seen these kind of issues on 11th to 13th gen but this 14th gen is extremely smooth and responsive giving my heavily tuned X79 V2 setup a run for its money - in fact for gaming I'd say on cursory testing it beats it. The biggest issue really is Windows 10/11 sometimes being a little busy in the background whereas Windows 7 on my X79 setup doesn't exhibit that.

One thing I did notice though you can fall foul of the way these CPUs adjust power/sleep states - normally they avoid or very quickly fire up in response to activity - if things aren't quite working right you can get on the wrong side of that waking up tick and get a noticeable hitch (sometimes as much as an 18+ms DPC latency spike) which seems to happen more easily with 11th to 13th gen.

I don't know if Intel has tweaked anything with these 14th gen but even spinning the mouse pointer around on the desktop feels nice and consistent in a way I've not always found the case on some recent CPU builds.

EDIT: On reflection I wonder if there is a motherboard/BIOS component to this where on some boards it just doesn't handle the transition through CPU states as well as others.

 

[humbug]

Its a bit odd to be talking about desktop responsiveness and multitasking ability, again, in 2023.

It was one of the complaints about the Pentium 4, among other things, many things.... that thing has a pipeline about a mile long, so each task would take forever to execute, in CPU terms, that also caused a backlog of executions to start building up and that's when windows starts feeling choppy and hangy, like large frame spikes in games, a lot of them.

Are Intel trying to get to 10Ghz the cheap way and failing, again?

I can be running Blender at full chat rendering on the CPU pegged to 100%, i can still open Spotify / run or Youtube at 4K and brows the web with exactly the same smoothness and responsiveness as with the CPU at idle, it just doesn't care what you do to it it just shrugs it off.... i've only ever NOT had that with Intel CPU's.

 

[MartinPrince]

I can be running Blender at full chat rendering on the CPU pegged to 100%, i can still open Spotify / run or Youtube at 4K and brows the web with exactly the same smoothness and responsiveness as with the CPU at idle, it just doesn't care what you do to it it just shrugs it off.... i've only ever NOT had that with Intel CPU's.

What was the last Intel CPU you owned and used extensively?

 

[willhub]

My 5800x3d feels no snappier than my 3700x on the desktop. Weirdly, Task Manager has always been sluggish though.

On the work pcs opening task manager is very risky too, sometimes it can cause the mouse to freeze and stutter.

 

[humbug]

What was the last Intel CPU you owned and used extensively?

4690K

 

[Tetras]

EDIT: On reflection I wonder if there is a motherboard/BIOS component to this where on some boards it just doesn't handle the transition through CPU states as well as others.

I've noticed that some boards seem to default hardware control to off, which afaik was introduced with 7th gen? I don't know why they would do that and I haven't noticed any obvious negatives from leaving it disabled.