Why does ATI limit overclocks and Nvidia do not.

[RavenXXX2]

Its a non issue. Both cards can be clocked. Both makers took steps to cover themselves, be it making overclocking harder, or voiding warrantys. Simple as and OP would never ever have started a thread like this before a well advertised change of hardware.



This was clearly started as an 'nvidia are doing this better than ati' thread; if this was started by a newbie or someone not familiar with the graphics card forums fair enough, Raven knows what he is doing. One of the three sticked threads shows it is simple enough to get round the ati limits.

When one of the few people <drunkenmaster> who regularly tries to put informed answers on threads finds himself in an argument of semantics with a troll and a mod, something is amiss.

Clearly you are wrong, why would I make a thread when I had the ATI card, it make sense that I move to a 480 and find I have no restrictions on my cards overclocking potential and find it annoying that my £300 5870 did. A mod has been actively posting in this thread so don't pull the flamebate thread nonsense. Do you see me flaming anyone, no I guess you don't. Yet you and others are descending the thread to a low level, post about the topic and stop having a go.

 

[RavenXXX2]

@ Gashman Exactly, do you see me getting personal? and flaming members left right and center and causing the thread to descend in to the bowels of depravity, I simply post about a genuine grievances I have had regarding ATI cards, feel free to share your view but don't get personal and off topic.

If you have nothing constructive to say then simply ignore the thread, if people feel that way then the thread simply fades away, simple really.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Raven do not let any of these thred trashers tell you what you can and can not discuss. You raised a valid point for discussion and yet again i am afraid to say the ATI brigade arrive feeling they have to justify everything by pulling you and the subject down.

The funny thing is, The matter in hand is not even a negative one. Ok you have to use some software to unlock the true overclocking value on ATI cards, so what. The point Raven is asking is, he wonders why you have to on ATI on not on Nvidia. But as this forum has got again recently it just brings in the children.

This is it, I can understand 5400 owners not caring about this threads subject matter but it's something I feel needs highlighted, you purchase a £300 GFX card from ATI and have to use unofficial ways to overclock your card past the 900 Mhz limit " ridiculous limit of 775 core on a 5850 " which may cause stability problems the way afterburner does it, I fail to see why anyone would not see this as legit issue when you compare it to the 480 I bought where I could go straight in and whack the core up to 1090 if I wish to do so.

 

[RavenXXX2]

It's not just one brand, it's all reference 5850's and 5870's, apart from MSI and Asus who charge a premium for their cards as well, you could buy the cheapest 480 going and still have the same access to overclocks as the most expensive 480 going, I feel this is fair, I find being limited to measly overclocks and then using software and editing a CFG file and potentiality having issues as described below from the afterburner readme.

Added configuration file switch allowing power users to unlock unofficial overclocking codepath in AMD display drivers (similar to AMDGPUClockTool, ATITool and RivaTuner overclocking implementation on AMD graphics cards).
Unlike AMD's official ADL SDK overclocking ways, unofficial ones are not limited with CCC clock limit but have some alternate disadvantages (e.g. PowerPlay support limitation).
Please take a note that unofficial overclocking methods are not supported either by AMD or by MSI, so unlock and use it at your own risk.

 

[RavenXXX2]

To sum up, ATI withhold the maximum potential performance of their cards by setting limits in the bios to stop getting decent overclocks, may this be for financial reasons to make people buy a more expensive higher clocked card or safety reasons to stop the inexperience people out there that purchase £200+ GFX cards but can't be trusted to overclock, who knows. Nvidia do not limit any overclocking potential giving you free access to the cards potential max performance, simples.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Wow you really have no clue, as explained earlier the initial bios clocks are set by ATI, please exit the thread.

More likely to limit RMA's due to people going nuts an breaking their gpu, then expecting them to replace it free of charge.

Yeah top end GPU's have thermal protection as well as other features to protect the card, the card will just lock up and the driver will recover when clocked too far, it's not issue IMO and nvidia do not see as an issue either. Fair enough if a company is using cheap components that they don't trust then maybe yes.

 

[RavenXXX2]

@Martini1991 You're derailing the thread like others, please stop it, you offer no explanation on the thread subject matter so leave it. ATI set the clocks and send the cards out to the AIB's and they sell them on, yes we can flash the bios but that voids the warranty, as said nvidia cards ship with high clock limits, no need to flash a bios or modify any files.

@kylew, at last someone who has something valid to post, yes easy to change the value but as said it screws up powerplay and...

Added configuration file switch allowing power users to unlock unofficial overclocking codepath in AMD display drivers (similar to AMDGPUClockTool, ATITool and RivaTuner overclocking implementation on AMD graphics cards).
Unlike AMD's official ADL SDK overclocking ways, unofficial ones are not limited with CCC clock limit but have some alternate disadvantages (e.g. PowerPlay support limitation).
Please take a note that unofficial overclocking methods are not supported either by AMD or by MSI, so unlock and use it at your own risk.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Does the CCC? no, read thread title again, it's not about voltage adjustment.

ATI allow overclocking in their driver settings. Nvidia do not.

Download Ntune by nvidia, it installs in to the control panel and allows overclocking.

He enjoys riling people up, nothing more, nothing less.
Negating the "Afterburner hack" one could just flash the BIOS, which is simple, "Void warranty you say?", I'm sure earlier you said an E-tailer wouldn't know the cards been OC'ed, and reverting the BIOS is simple.

Good luck reversing the bios on a dead card, and if they do get it working that's your warranty bust.

 

[RavenXXX2]

I though it was common knowledge there is absolutely noway to know if a card has been clocked or not, a bios flash is a dead give away, so that excuse holds no water.

Regarding powerplay and unofficial overclocking, yes there are known issues with flash content and HD content, it's in the afterburner readme, see all the hoops you need to jump through to overclock your expensive ATI card.

 

[RavenXXX2]

@ kylew Yes I have an issue now having gone to a 480 and clocking no problem and then when I think back to my 5870 and having to flash my bios to exceed the stingy 50Mhz they gave on a £300 card, it make me think Nvidia are more consumer supportive.

Well he's gotten on the "ATI make bad drivers" bandwagon also.
I used a 5870 Crossfire and didn't see any real problem with the drivers at all..For the most part scaling for impressive.

Check this thread out, took the ATI driver team five months to fix performance problems in BC2 and AVP, you were saying?

The Bottom Line

The issues holding back performance in these two titles has now been fixed thanks to the new CrossFireX Application Profile. This is what the CAP system was intended for; to provide performance and compatibility updates to CrossFireX without having to wait between driver versions. Unfortunately, it hasn’t quite worked out this way, with CAP updates coming about as frequently as driver updates. It has been months with these CrossFireX performance issues present, and we are only now seeing it get fixed. AMD needs to stay in tune with its customers a bit better in the future, because honestly, these CFX issues were even voiced in AMD's own forums months ago.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/08/26/ati_crossfirex_application_profile_108a_performance

 

[RavenXXX2]

They were alerted months a go read the article and thread in the forums, and they are two high profile PC games.

@Final8y

Yes very high profile and recent titles right there.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Sorry, I'm a speed typer, do miss the odd punctuation error now and then

 

[RavenXXX2]

It has been months with these CrossFireX performance issues present, and we are only now seeing it get fixed. AMD needs to stay in tune with its customers a bit better in the future, because honestly, these CFX issues were even voiced in AMD's own forums months ago.

Regarding stuttering in BC2 that's not been an ongoing issue, certainly not as long as the xfire issues in BC2, nivida had low GPU usage problems after a recent patch from Dice.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Every card I have had has had its nuts clocked of and then sold on and no problems with the buyer.

 

[RavenXXX2]

It seems like common sense to me so they can protect the 'average' user from accidentally over overclocking and bricking their card. The 'experts' however will know how to circumvent the limits and will bear all consequences if something goes wrong

Overclocking does not brick a card, go to far and the card simply locks up and the driver recovers, GFX 101.

 

[RavenXXX2]

^^Actually you didn't make it to my ignore list...yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg-WFkkKOaU&feature=related