Why Mac?

[MacRS4]

My main work laptop(s) are a MBP and an Air. Why? Well, their more like appliances IMO - they just get on with it. I've found them far more reliable and consistent than any other laptop so far.

As to why OSX & MBP? For me, it's simply virtualisation. Being able to run so many different platforms on my laptop is ace and makes my life a lot easier. 6/7 servers on my demo suite for example. Takes a while to boot it all up, but it works and it works well.

 

[Combat squirrel]

TBH if your a code monkey stick to ubuntu, its awesome - ONLY IF YOU DEFINITELY KNOW HOW TO USE IT, thats its biggest issue, its a ruddy nightmare even for some 'advanced' pc users, drivers, software compatability etc, im a yeeee old veteren PC user and im still finding myself frustrated with having to code/know how to code to use some stuff on ubuntu, or get it working properly etc.

TBH if lightroom/photoshop etc worked on ubuntu I would put the time and effort in to switch (which would be an entire weekend of effort to switch, backup, and make everything how I wanted it etc), but for now windows 7 is awesome on my PC (need the powah ) and I have a mac laptop as a general laptop, as frankly there is no better laptop iv seen that just does the job and I use iweb, which i rather use as I dont want to have to 'think' (i.e. code) when im making my website which I only use to promote my photography, i.e. im not that interested in showing I can code a website when I just want to drag and drop my latest pics etc.

 

[Southy_]

If you are going to use it for Java development then be aware that Apple recently stopped supporting their Java VM. So while Java runs fine on OSX, its future is uncertain on that platform.

Thankfully not long after the deprecation announcement, they also announced a new deal with OpenJDK for Java 7, so not too worried about that.

TBH if your a code monkey stick to ubuntu, its awesome - ONLY IF YOU DEFINITELY KNOW HOW TO USE IT, thats its biggest issue, its a ruddy nightmare even for some 'advanced' pc users, drivers, software compatability etc, im a yeeee old veteren PC user and im still finding myself frustrated with having to code/know how to code to use some stuff on ubuntu, or get it working properly etc.

TBH if lightroom/photoshop etc worked on ubuntu I would put the time and effort in to switch (which would be an entire weekend of effort to switch, backup, and make everything how I wanted it etc), but for now windows 7 is awesome on my PC (need the powah ) and I have a mac laptop as a general laptop, as frankly there is no better laptop iv seen that just does the job and I use iweb, which i rather use as I dont want to have to 'think' (i.e. code) when im making my website which I only use to promote my photography, i.e. im not that interested in showing I can code a website when I just want to drag and drop my latest pics etc.

I know Ubuntu very well, having used it for 4 years, doing Java dev, at my previous job.
Interesting that someone that has used Ubuntu for dev is recommending it over Mac, most people I know recommend the opposite.
Have you done much dev work on Mac?

 

[bigredshark]

Personally I started using Mac's because they had some software I couldn't get elsewhere (Aperture, in the days before lightroom). I stopped using Windows for personal stuff not too long thereafter, principly because I found myself using my Mac instead for most things as I just enjoyed using it more.

Without wishing to start a fight, everything seemed more fluid and easier than Windows (XP at the time), which occasionally felt like a fight to get it doing what I wanted. 7 is better and is on my work laptop but I still feel, for me, OSX is a pleasure to use and Windows 7 is merely unoffensive (most of the time - seriously, I don't care about your security center or windows update alerts Microsoft, I can manage my own computer thanks, give me a button to make it leave me the hell alone!)

I know unix (Linux and Solaris) very well but I've never considered either for home, I need my computer to be a utility most of the time, just there and working when required and I've never felt comfortable with Linux in that role (I import my photos from camera, edit and upload them to facebook/flickr/website in one application and one easy workflow, Linux isn't there for stuff like that yet). I like Linux, Debian makes a good workstation OS at work but at home it's too much upkeep and hassle for what I want to do.

That's what it comes down to, Mac makes my life easy and I will pay for that because I don't have that much spare time. Money is money but time is priceless.

I also don't much care about the price difference - it's a tool I'll use virtually every day for at least two years, spending £1000, 1500, even 2k on it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

 

[MacRS4]

To be fair most of my work stuff in is in Win7 - I just tend to use OSX as it's environment if that makes sense.

When using Win7 only I miss spaces....I'm sure there's probably a downloadable equivalent for Win7, same way I use SizeUp and Cinch to simulate some features from 7 in OSX.

 

[theheyes]

I'm going to assume you're interested in a Mac primarily for work purposes - if you're in it for the luxury it's a different argument.

There is a never ending stream of people that will insist they are "more productive" on a Mac but it quickly dries up when you want specific, objective reasons why this is the case. Yes they have great screens, yes they have brilliant trackpads with expose window management, yes they don't clutter the place up with wires and run very quietly - but these are fuzzy arguments and you have to question whether they are going to make a big difference? Because you're paying good money for them. If I was doing contract work I'd want to maximize what I earned and using low-cost hardware and open source software is a great way to do that. I think many people would envy your current position!

There are of course people who have a genuine need for a specific platform - they may have a significant investment in software, training and experience and it makes absolute sense to go with a Mac but you don't appear to have any such ties. One of the plus points of OSX is that it's the only really legitimate way of running all three major operating systems concurrenly (virtual machines) which might make sense for your dev stuff. Perhaps you could pick up a second hand Mac Mini and explore the range of alternative software available?

But to me, it sounds like you're doing fine with your current setup and are just curious about whether there is a better way. In my opinion by far the biggest contributing factor to "productivity" is the person sat between the keyboard and chair. A lot of people enjoy and place great value in some of the nuances of OSX and its range of apps and will happily pay for them, but if cost is an issue then it might turn out to be an expensive exercise just to find out whether you are one of them.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I find Exposé makes me more productive.

Dragging and dropping across Exposé is really handy when you have multiple windows open. Spaces is good, but I don't use it enough as I should.

Horses for courses really. Want a Mac? Get one. Want a PC? Get one. I think having both is the best solution*

PC - Gaming
Mac - Browsing and media

 

[Southy_]

I'm going to assume you're interested in a Mac primarily for work purposes - if you're in it for the luxury it's a different argument.

There is a never ending stream of people that will insist they are "more productive" on a Mac but it quickly dries up when you want specific, objective reasons why this is the case. Yes they have great screens, yes they have brilliant trackpads with expose window management, yes they don't clutter the place up with wires and run very quietly - but these are fuzzy arguments and you have to question whether they are going to make a big difference? Because you're paying good money for them. If I was doing contract work I'd want to maximize what I earned and using low-cost hardware and open source software is a great way to do that. I think many people would envy your current position!

There are of course people who have a genuine need for a specific platform - they may have a significant investment in software, training and experience and it makes absolute sense to go with a Mac but you don't appear to have any such ties. One of the plus points of OSX is that it's the only really legitimate way of running all three major operating systems concurrenly (virtual machines) which might make sense for your dev stuff. Perhaps you could pick up a second hand Mac Mini and explore the range of alternative software available?

But to me, it sounds like you're doing fine with your current setup and are just curious about whether there is a better way. In my opinion by far the biggest contributing factor to "productivity" is the person sat between the keyboard and chair. A lot of people enjoy and place great value in some of the nuances of OSX and its range of apps and will happily pay for them, but if cost is an issue then it might turn out to be an expensive exercise just to find out whether you are one of them.

This is basically what I needed to hear from someone else, as every time someone tries to convince me to use Mac for my contracting this is what I think.

The VM argument is a good one for, especially for testing of web sites in multiple OS's.
The old mac mini to test software is a good suggestion.

Thanks.

 

[bigredshark]

If I was doing contract work I'd want to maximize what I earned and using low-cost hardware and open source software is a great way to do that.

Actually, when I was contracting I found that was one of things which pushed me more towards more expensive hardware and legit supported software - I needed things to work. Anything I might save by doing things cheaper was lost in the costs of any downtime, failures or delays.

That's not a Apple specific argument of course but a general one - better a £1500 Dell and RHEL with support than a £500 Acer and Ubuntu if you can't afford not to be productive. My rational was I needed somebody (preferably a specialist) contracted to fix it if it went wrong and quickly (I didn't have time for it to be my problem, even if it was my a couple of hours easy work), the potential losses (both financial and reputation) far outweighed the cost of expensive hardware and software.

 

[MuGeN]

Its really hard to quantify on paper, the fact is once you go mac you don't go back... for all sorts of reasons, most of which can't be properly explained (its more of an overall experience more than solid reasons).

Take me, I used to love my powerful gaming pcs; overclocking, tweaking, the lot, and was very dubious about possibly making the switch... I considered it on and off for a few years and finally bought a Macbook. I now have the same Macbook, a Macbook Air, 2 iMacs, not to mention all sorts of iPod/iPhone gadgets...

Fact is, the only people you find saying the really negative stuff about these awesome bits of hardware are the people who don't have them - I'm sure they exist, but you rarely find someone who's gone back to the world of PCs once they've seen the light

 

[Spyhop]

Fact is, the only people you find saying the really negative stuff about these awesome bits of hardware are the people who don't have them

You don't need to own something to have valid criticisms - the problem with the typical Mac basher is that they're never or hardly even used OS X enough to have a worthwhile opinion.

 

[Southy_]

You don't need to own something to have valid criticisms - the problem with the typical Mac basher is that they're never or hardly even used OS X enough to have a worthwhile opinion.

That's my issue, all I really have are preconceived opinions based off the 2nd hand knowledge of Mac Lovers and Mac Haters.
Guess I need to find a not-too-expensive way of running a mac for a while, see if I should be in the Lovers camp

 

[MacRS4]

You mentioned contracting - I'm also a long term contractor, have been since the mid 90s.

I'm also a big Mac user - for a number of reasons. Firstly, I switched to Apple's for the my every day gear mid-2008. Got my first Mac late 2007 I think - mainly cos I wanted something to play with. I did NOT expect to end up using it for my work stuff.

So, does it make me productive? Subjective question really, but I believe it does. It makes my life easier.

Firstly, I've had significantly less issues with any Apple hardware than I have with any other piece of kit. I absolutely depend on my laptop - no laptop, no chargeable work. It's one of the reasons I have two (Air & a MBP).

^^ It could be argued I've been unlucky with my Windows laptops.

I like the backup scenarios - TimeMachine is a great, simple solution. I no longer worry about backups. Again, you can emulate something similar in Windows if you want.

Longer times between rebuilds. I'd find myself rebuilding my Windows laptops after a while due to integration to various client sites and general OS badgering. I don't often rebuild my OSX machines - in fact, the MBP I'm using now is the one I bought nearly a year ago and it's still running the original build.

The above kind of covers reliability. My experience since mid-2008 is that I have less issues with this platform than I did with an equivalent Windows platform.

Arguable subjective.

What about operational stuff? Well, as I mentioned earlier in the thread I think, the virtualisation capabilities of OSX are the best I've seen. It's very, very capable and it scales well. For somebody who swaps between 2 or 3 sites regularly having access to custom environments specific to each client is a god-send and saves me a bundle of time.

Again, you can replicate on Windows, just in my experience it doesn't work as well or as efficiently.

In terms of development (I tend to work on large-ish infrastructure type projects) I can produce test environments very quickly, and run a lot of it on my laptop. I love that, it's revolutionised the way I work.

Again, you can replicate this in Windows, however my experience in OSX has been far better.

In terms of day to day usage, my main 'work' Office solution is virtualised Win 7. Love Windows 7, great working environment. The fact that I can have it one screen, and my test Exchange or Lync environment running on the other 5 - makes for a very flexible and productive environment.

Relatively subjective points.

As a contractor I think it has made me significantly more productive for my working environment - which is, of course ironically, designing and deploying large scale Microsoft based infrastructures.

Is it 'better'? Better is such a meh word isn't it?

Cost is less of an issue as I purchase VAT free and tax deductible too....

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here really, a lot of it is personal subjective opinion.

 

[Southy_]

snip

Thanks for that post Mac, was really useful.

Actually, when I was contracting I found that was one of things which pushed me more towards more expensive hardware and legit supported software - I needed things to work. Anything I might save by doing things cheaper was lost in the costs of any downtime, failures or delays.

That's not a Apple specific argument of course but a general one - better a £1500 Dell and RHEL with support than a £500 Acer and Ubuntu if you can't afford not to be productive. My rational was I needed somebody (preferably a specialist) contracted to fix it if it went wrong and quickly (I didn't have time for it to be my problem, even if it was my a couple of hours easy work), the potential losses (both financial and reputation) far outweighed the cost of expensive hardware and software.

This is something I hadn't thought about, haven't been doing the contracting long.
Hardware reliability really is something to consider.

From that perspective it may be worth getting the Mac, looking at dells with good replacement schemes and such, the prices aren't far off, and if I really didn't like MacOSX I could install Windows/Linux on the Mac.

What are peoples experience with Apple support in terms of broken hardware?

 

[MacRS4]

I've only had a couple of instances to need it - cracked casing on the poly MB. Both times they just swapped the casing same day.

Things fail, goes for Windows / Mac or anything. I chose to invest in a second laptop rather than invest in support. I also chose to invest in keeping my laptops in warranty so I replace with every year's refresh pretty much, and then ebay the old one.

For what it's worth so far I've got back about 75% of purchase price on my ebay'd Macs, so it's a great scheme and works well.

 

[frankcatkill]

I don't see what people are on about when they mention the screen, keyboard and mouse equating a premium of $300/£300 over a similar specced PC, when they keyboard and mouse combination you get from Apple is criminal?

They have the worst ergonomics I've ever seen from a manufacturer in terms of mouse/keyboards. I don't understand why they thought going from a 2 button mouse to a 1 button mouse a few years back was a step forward in progression, and there keyboards are horribly flat leaving the wrist at a stupid angle, unless your arms are perfectly flat straight with the board which they're not, unless your arms are flat on a table?

I've never liked white plastic. I think it looks cheap in any guise. There screens just look an eye sore personally. There keyboards are built nicely, but just horrible to use, especially the key spacing. And why would you use white plastic for your keys OR mouse? They're gonna get filthy and show up a nasty brown. The Macs at my old uni were literally disgusting to look at, especially the screen that showed up every finger mark from its shiny coating.

I've used some Mac OS, and I've found them again irritating to use to the extreme. To close a window for instance, the close button is just too small. The wasted inch on either edge of the screen again just screams to me "POINTLESS."

I think a lot of people have this magical opinion of Mac OS because they've come from a tired and worn version of Windows, and have given up on software maintenance. I've just come from a tired and worn out version of XP on to a new genuine version of Win 7, on a SSD and its sooooooooooo smooth, so faultless its as good as I'd want it to be.

 

[Sagalout]

Whether you like the keyboard or mouse isn't the issue. Personally I do, and the mouse you get with the iMac doesn't have buttons but touch areas that you can customise however you want. But anyway, the point is you can't compare the price of a tower to an iMac without also speccing a top quality screen, a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Don't be one of those people that buys a Mac, tries it for a week and reformats to put Windows on.

If you have an Apple store close to home, call in and ask them to show you around the apps you're likely to use. If they don't have the apps installed just go through the basics of the OS, so when you get the machine you aren't totally "new" to it.

I always say it takes 2 weeks to really get used to the new way of working with the OS, so don't buy it expecting to be producing work within a day, at the speed you do things in Windows.

Should have seen me using Windows 7 for the first time.. was like an OAP! "Where's the option to increase mouse speed?! *swear*"

 

["andy"]

i bought my macbook because someone i knew was selling it for the same price as a same spec laptop would have cost me.

i like it but after using it for 2 years i still dont see why people pay hundreds more for one. well unless for example they need certain mac software

the main 2 bits of software i use are Ableton live and MS office for uni work, while ableton runs better on the macbook i find office for mac absolutely horrible. dreadful. even more so when your going between windows and osx versions at uni/home.

its about time for a new laptop and i really cant decide between pc/mac , well i mean i wont be able to decide after the macbook updates because at the moment pc's are winning by a mile for me

 

[Margaret]

the fact is once you go mac you don't go back... for all sorts of reasons, most of which can't be properly explained (its more of an overall experience more than solid reasons).

Lol what a load of rubbish. I like my Mac but all this crap about being oh so simple to use compared to Windows and having less issues is hardly true at all.

Windows 7 is great, OS X is also great. That's it, yeah if you don't know what you're doing you might mess things up easier in Windows than you would on OS X but that is not the operating systems fault. It all comes down to how computer savvy the user is.

Apple laptops are a tad overpriced but the desktops are a complete joke. I'll never buy one when you can get far better PCs for much cheaper. (which if you really wanted, could run OS X through other means)

Style over substance rings very true for iMacs, ridiculous pricing on those and no the screen doesn't make up for the price.