Soldato
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Nope. I would need to do something like this
Displayport--->monitor HDMI E-ARC---->AVR
or
Displayport for video only--->monitor
and HDMI AUDIO only from GPU---->AVR
Why the move away from add in sound cards?
- Thread starter Pete Tong
- Start date
Nope. I would need to do something like this
Displayport--->monitor HDMI E-ARC---->AVR
or
Displayport for video only--->monitor
and HDMI AUDIO only from GPU---->AVR
What are your recommendations for a good external DAC?
That's a loaded question!
People will probably need a budget / use case from you
This, it's very difficult to make a suggestion without knowing the above.
What you're planning on plugging into the thing helps too.
You could get suggestions ranging from £20 to £1000 + easily otherwise.
Are you guys that are suggesting using DACs just running stereo to an AVR?
Personally I've yet to see a pc speaker system that would compete with even a cheap hi-fi setup, let alone beat it, so could assume that's what people are doing (using decent hi-fi speakers) but audiophiles and PC connoisseurs usually have differing opinions. Plus I'm a total DAC noob and every PC gamer seems to love headphones these days, so maybe not?
I'm about to make a thread about how the hell to get my audio from pc to AVR (tried and failed before)... seems a lot of people here clearly aren't for mixing PC audio with speakers and don't want to hijack the thread, if anyone wants to reply to my thread, twould be awesome, as there's no way I want to use headphones, 2.1 audio or fill the room with DAC's and a 2nd set of speakers!
Personally I've yet to see a pc speaker system that would compete with even a cheap hi-fi setup, let alone beat it, so could assume that's what people are doing (using decent hi-fi speakers) but audiophiles and PC connoisseurs usually have differing opinions. Plus I'm a total DAC noob and every PC gamer seems to love headphones these days, so maybe not?
I'm about to make a thread about how the hell to get my audio from pc to AVR (tried and failed before)... seems a lot of people here clearly aren't for mixing PC audio with speakers and don't want to hijack the thread, if anyone wants to reply to my thread, twould be awesome, as there's no way I want to use headphones, 2.1 audio or fill the room with DAC's and a 2nd set of speakers!
Soldato
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I have a AVR with decent passive speakers and a active sub
Sources to the AVR include
PC (optical out)
PC (coaxial out)
Squeezebox touch (coaxial)
DVD player (HDMI)
Couple of other consoles (HDMI)
Primary PC video is displayport direct to monitor
secondary PC video is HDMI direct to monitor, limited to 2560x1440 60hz (something to do with the GPU)
HDMI display out from AVR into monitor for AVR setup
I send PCM (for PC's and Squeezebox) AVR just works better for my use because of HDMI, bass management, room correction etc. If it was a stereo amp I'd need a DAC as well, plus no way to high pass speakers, would need to send video & audio seperatly, so it just be a PITA.
I though HDMI audio out from PC would work, but it doesn't it just causes issues- so make sure your motherboard has optical/coaxial out, or get a dedicated soundcard with that.
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I think it depends on use case. I know for me the primary aim for my DAC/AMP(s) is to drive reasonable, clean audio for headphones. The speakers are secondary. Sure I need them for normal PC use but I'm not overly bothered about quality etc. Particularly as I have neighbours and family members I don't want to annoy. I'm still running the cheap Edifier stereo speakers OCUK sold 15, or however many years ago. And they work fine for my small office room setup. I think if I was in a 'lounge' type environment then yes, an AVR and better speakers might be the order of the day.
Or DAC to active speakers is a good solution. No AVR or amp required then.
There are quite a few active options from reputable speaker brands these days.
If you get active speakers with a digital in like USB/optical, you don't even need a DAC as it's built into the speaker amp.
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Associate
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Still using my Xonar xtx. no issues with noise or the like, still sounds ace driving dt770's
you seem to know a bit, mind checking out my thread at all? Currently I already use DD live over optical via a soundcard but optical doesn't support 7.1 and is "dogs**t quality" that can't do FLAC's any justice (apparently).
What issues did you get with audio out from PC, I assume you mean the motherboard hdmi out and that was trying to send audio and video separately? and why coax and optical out? So confused!!
Haha Edifiers, yes! Mate I used to have some 2.1 edifiers when I was living in China, I thought I was buying the cheapest of the cheap (£200 or so) as was only there for a few years but wow they were damn great! Yeah nothing compared to real speakers but in an office I'd even say comparably as good as Sony or even BOSE.
If you're using headphones though I'd guess it sounds a cleaner amplification... wired ones, as I guess wireless wouldn't make a difference?
yeah trouble is If I was going active I'd want some KEF meta LS50's and that'd be £3600 for 3 pairs of those as I'm after surround sound haha. Incredible active speakers those! Can you even do 7.1 or 5.1 over an external DAC? It'd need HDMI wouldn't it?
I do wonder what my KEF r500's would sound like over a 2.1 and DAC though. Already sound good on a rubbish DD live card though tbf
Soldato
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In asus soundcard settingjust leave it to PCM
In Media Player Home Cinema set bitstream to DD & DTS (nothing more don't tick the HD options)
DD Live means it'll convert audio to Dolby Digital, you don't want that. For PCM audio you want it to leave to PCM audio, no resampling
flacs sound fine, just test 44.1khz PCM and 48khz PCM shows as that original on your AVR. If it shows 44khz as 48khz or Dolby Digital 5.1 there is transcoding going on.
HDMI from PC worked, it was just the display issues with that, since HDMI is video and audio, windows was showing it was a dual display setup, so it was seeing the AVR as a "display" so I either had to clone, mirror or extended it. When I wanted none of those, I just wanted the audio from HDMI.
Regardless a PC isn't a great music source, I much better a Squeezebox and using Pi5 with LMS, much better than Foobar, although if I'm on the computer than PC as a audio player is ok. But the dedicated audio streamers are still better.
So are the dedicated video streamers, a cheap AMlogic box does video playback better, totally silent etc
In Media Player Home Cinema set bitstream to DD & DTS (nothing more don't tick the HD options)
DD Live means it'll convert audio to Dolby Digital, you don't want that. For PCM audio you want it to leave to PCM audio, no resampling
flacs sound fine, just test 44.1khz PCM and 48khz PCM shows as that original on your AVR. If it shows 44khz as 48khz or Dolby Digital 5.1 there is transcoding going on.
HDMI from PC worked, it was just the display issues with that, since HDMI is video and audio, windows was showing it was a dual display setup, so it was seeing the AVR as a "display" so I either had to clone, mirror or extended it. When I wanted none of those, I just wanted the audio from HDMI.
Regardless a PC isn't a great music source, I much better a Squeezebox and using Pi5 with LMS, much better than Foobar, although if I'm on the computer than PC as a audio player is ok. But the dedicated audio streamers are still better.
So are the dedicated video streamers, a cheap AMlogic box does video playback better, totally silent etc
Soldato
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LS50 are totally overrated overhyped speakers.
Soldato
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I wouldn't use a PC for a primary surround sound source, for me it's just one extra source- and gaming to AVR only
For two channel PCM- use Wiim or Squeezebox (analogue or digital out to AVR)
for TV series/movies- use dedicated video streamer (HDMI to AVR) these will pass all HD formats, DTSX, Atmos etc no problems, framerate switching, totally silent, IR control etc etc. £50 job done.
PC- for gaming- and use spdif from motherboard header or asus soundcard, for gaming or whenever you're in foobar for music playback
Yea, they're fine for basic stereo PC related stuff, or playing the odd indie game. If I replace them it'll probably be for a newer set of Edifiers. Ironically the dual RCA input has been brilliant for my current 2 PC setup (cheap linux box + gaming PC). If you mean wireless/bt speakers - would probably be fine albeit latency might be an issue.
When I use PCM out via optical I only get 2.1 audio for some reason. I often forget to switch over to PCM when listening to music and tbh rarely notice, but can imagine it's a bad compression yeah. It's difficult to do an A-B comparison because on PCM it ups the volume and bass. I've never once had surround sound from PC to AVR unless I use DD Live
The audiophile dudes say optical cant handle much above 320kbps because of limitations of optical and FLACS can be well over 1000kbps. I think my FLACS sound great, but might be inclined to agree with them because I don't think on my setup FLACs sound much better than a good quality MP3. I've also no complaints with audio quality on youtube or downloaded movies etc... Maybe my ears aren't great from all the motorbiking! But yeah, only 5.1.
Yeah I've heard unfortunately you have to have it set to dual display.
If you just duplicate surely you could just set the 2nd feed to AVR as like 800x600 or something? Maybe it wouldn't use too much gpu power?
Myself, I can't even get the audio to go through GPU to my AVR. The AVR gets nothing.
And if try ARC instead: my TV's HDMI source (HDMI 1 for PC) just keeps switching to HDMI 2: my blu ray, fire cube, or whatever is connected to the AVR. Sometimes this kit turns on as soon as I turn easy-link on... which is needed for ARC. Oddly, ARC instead from TV apps (eg netflix) works fine to AVR... I open netflix and AVR switched to "TV audio"... it's like it needs the AVR needs to like automatically switch to "TV audio" which it does when you play something on TV, but with HDMI it doesn't...
My "Nvidia HD audio" does come out of my TV speakers ok though.
This is why my sound card lives on to 2025 haha!
Thought it weird as first time I heard someone say that and they must have 1000's of 5star reviews however looked at them and noticed although the METAs I heard were stunning and maybe deserve the hype, they are actually not active, so maybe you'd have to have spent over +££££ on an amp (AND +££££ on a sub) for them to shine. Not sure I'd choose them over floorstander's but for £1200 I'd even say better than any bookshelf I've heard, inc Fyne Audio, B&W or Quad.
But then you could get some KEF q150s, a decent sub AND an amp for £1200 with money left over so maybe you're right! What didn't you like about them? A bit boring?
As said already using optical... rarely watch movies on pc (only if I cant find a 4k blu ray really), when you did it via hdmi out and could clone/mirror/extend did you ever get 7.1 working?
I've only ever used some cheap-o £200 hyperx headphones so not sure but would me plugging them into sound card make them sound better? and then with a DAC? Maybe even a bit louder? always my issue with headphones, not loud enough (and pricey for what they are... £200 would get you decent speakers.......................... and neighbour complaints though haha).
Soldato
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"When I use PCM out via optical I only get 2.1 audio for some reason. I often forget to switch over to PCM when listening to music and tbh rarely notice, but can imagine it's a bad compression yeah. It's difficult to do an A-B comparison because on PCM it ups the volume and bass. I've never once had surround sound from PC to AVR unless I use DD Live "
Bit perfect from PCM, and multi channel works no problem.
In asus control panel, set it to PCM out
In Media Player Home cinema select this
"The audiophile dudes say optical cant handle much above 320kbps because of limitations of optical and FLACS can be well over 1000kbps. I"
Nonsense, optical can handle 24 bit 192khz- my Wiim Ultra does, dependson the soundcard, but 24 bit 96khz should be fine
You should be able to get 5.1 DD and DTS from the asus soundcard, optical out.
Foobar can use waspi which is bit perfect but only works in 32 bit foobar
"Bit perfect from PCM, and multi channel works no problem.
In asus control panel, set it to PCM out
In Media Player Home cinema select this
"The audiophile dudes say optical cant handle much above 320kbps because of limitations of optical and FLACS can be well over 1000kbps. I"
Nonsense, optical can handle 24 bit 192khz- my Wiim Ultra does, dependson the soundcard, but 24 bit 96khz should be fine
You should be able to get 5.1 DD and DTS from the asus soundcard, optical out.
Foobar can use waspi which is bit perfect but only works in 32 bit foobar
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I think most gaming headsets are very easy to drive, or wireless and have their own internal DAC so wouldn't benefit from a soundcard/DAC etc. But in theory as long as the source is clean and the headset gets loud enough there's no likely benefit. With more powerful, 'audiophile', wired headphones that's where headphone DACs and more so Amps tend to improve things massively.
Most of what I wanted that soundcards provided can be had via alternative means these days. For 3d headphone virtualisation - DTS:X headphone plugin via the Microsoft Store does what I need it to. Alternatively the various Super X-Fi external devices or DACs also do it. There's also HDMI audio out to an atmos receiver or soundbar based systems - which removes some of the need for high analogue quality sound components in the PC, or encoding like Dolby Digital Live / DTS Connect.
I happen to be running both an internal SoundblasterZ and an external Soundblaster X4, with alternative use of a Creative SXFi Amp (for more portable use) - but really I don't need all those devices. If there was an internal soundcard with all the X4's features I'd rather have that alone, and built into the PC. What I would really like is something that can spit out any of the relevant processing via both the PC's 3.5mm jacks and feed audio out to the GPU's HDMI port. In some ways the obvious thing to do would be to have a GPU that also incorporated better sound based features.
But - essentially, as others have mentioned, Microsoft killed most of what put gaming soundcards so far ahead in the XP era in terms of 3d hardware audio. And consequently gaming audio was set back by a decade or two. We have only fairly recently got back to software game engines pulling off the sort of things that most DirectSound3D games could do via a 1st Gen X-Fi in 2005 (a 4.0 or 4.1 based speaker system with elevation filter and macroFX could spit out quite similar audio to a modern virtualised atmos soundbar with rear speakers now)
What I would quite like would be an internal soundcard to which you could utilise any speakers (including height) for a 3D atmos-like expeience (ideally licensed). If this could also work with both wired and wireless speakers and headphones, giving an alternative to soundbars or receivers, that would be great.
I happen to be running both an internal SoundblasterZ and an external Soundblaster X4, with alternative use of a Creative SXFi Amp (for more portable use) - but really I don't need all those devices. If there was an internal soundcard with all the X4's features I'd rather have that alone, and built into the PC. What I would really like is something that can spit out any of the relevant processing via both the PC's 3.5mm jacks and feed audio out to the GPU's HDMI port. In some ways the obvious thing to do would be to have a GPU that also incorporated better sound based features.
But - essentially, as others have mentioned, Microsoft killed most of what put gaming soundcards so far ahead in the XP era in terms of 3d hardware audio. And consequently gaming audio was set back by a decade or two. We have only fairly recently got back to software game engines pulling off the sort of things that most DirectSound3D games could do via a 1st Gen X-Fi in 2005 (a 4.0 or 4.1 based speaker system with elevation filter and macroFX could spit out quite similar audio to a modern virtualised atmos soundbar with rear speakers now)
What I would quite like would be an internal soundcard to which you could utilise any speakers (including height) for a 3D atmos-like expeience (ideally licensed). If this could also work with both wired and wireless speakers and headphones, giving an alternative to soundbars or receivers, that would be great.