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Will low level API's make Intel Stronger Per Core Performance Irrelevant?

almighty15

almighty15

almighty15

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Was thinking about this lately, Intel are far a head because software is inefficient when it comes to mutli-threading and thus relies heavily on a chip having a high IPC or per core performance.

Mantle has already shown that with a low level API AMD CPU's, even the cheap ones can rock it with Intel chips costs 3-4x as much.

So when DirectX 12 comes out next year and then finally matures out over the next 2-3 years will this make Intel's performance advantage moot and pretty much kill off the need for high performance cores?

Granted older games won't benefit from the newer API's but the newer stuff will.

The CPU sector is will be turned upside down in a few years.

What you guys reckon will happen?
 
I think it will depend on the type of games. Yes, in current games with Mantle the gap between AMD and Intel becomes smaller, but we might have games in the future that will have more stuff running on the CPU due to the freed up performance from Mantle/DirectX 12.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.
 
Noctifer said:
I think it will depend on the type of games. Yes, in current games with Mantle the gap between AMD and Intel becomes smaller, but we might have games in the future that will have more stuff running on the CPU due to the freed up performance from Mantle/DirectX 12.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.
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As everything moves over to compute ( which it finally will now the new consoles have that capability ) then there will be less done on CPU as for most of the heavy stuff the GPU will be much faster anyway.
 
A case of wait and see, but with 4K becoming mainstream, and lower CPU overheads, it's very much a possibility that Intels current wins in games will become far less profound. And will certainly depend on the game as to whether there's even a variation at all.
 
I really do not hope that Mantle/DX12 will make the industry go "ohh well no need to improve cpus anymore" but instead look at it as an opportunity to add even crazyer stuff like Advanced AI and i mean ADVANCED not just some dog or fish. Perhaps even better cpu driven physics cause imho we need both if we are to see anything really game changing.
 
Phixsator said:
I really do not hope that Mantle/DX12 will make the industry go "ohh well no need to improve cpus anymore" but instead look at it as an opportunity to add even crazyer stuff like Advanced AI and i mean ADVANCED not just some dog or fish. Perhaps even better cpu driven physics cause imho we need both if we are to see anything really game changing.
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Won't happen now as GPU's are just so much better at it.
 
Even if a few AAA title games were to use dx12 to it's full potential and eliminate the need for strong IPC, there will still be hundreds of other games that won't use it for a long, long time. Meaning Intel will remain king, unless Zen improves AMD's IPC.
 
almighty15 said:
Won't happen now as GPU's are just so much better at it.
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I can see that being true for physics, perhaps being accellerated though directcompute or whatever but i dont think its true for proper A.I. Not atleast with the current way everything is designed. I could ofcourse be wrong and i dont care if i am as long as both those things are happening. I just want more than the fancy particles and goob/water effects.
 
To the OP in question this was the topic of debate when we were "discussing" such mentions or reasoning's some time ago dependant on your slant. The sensible yet somewhat sceptical few were encouraged by this potential, and it looks like it was indeed the masterplan.

Unfortunately there was quite a few titles that this would not apply to, so some remained stubborn or dismissive. There was some shocking advice though where the odd chirper would jib in with foolish comments that would go with the i5 to the detriment of having a weaker GPU.

It depends on the snapshot of time you are comparing with too, because by the sounds of it you mention "2-3 years" after DX12 which is AGES away meaning most of our systems will be overhauled to some capacity making this argument moot.
 
At the end of the day I have always taken this article as gospel.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-future-proofing-your-pc-for-next-gen

The coders know what's what and know how these games use a rig.

But even if they are not to be trusted all you have to do is look at where games come from; the consoles. Ever since the original Xbox and PS2 games for PC have been made for console first, then slopped over to the PC.

Want to know why you won't need all that grunt in the future? because the CPU used in both consoles is an AMD X86 module that's pretty much identical to PC architecture. Thus, you're not running into walls trying to muscle out games. On older CPU dependent titles the CPU coding was total garbage. Mostly because it was never originally designed for X86.

Now? if a 8 core Jaguar running 1.7ghz on about six cores (I reckon two are reserved for system use, hence the massive amount) then a PC with a £30 CPU in it could do the same, given it's practically identical to the poxy little number in the consoles.

AMD are working around this by pimping HSA. Once they get that up and running they can then coax you in with a £150 PC that can actually do the same job as the console. Not high end graphics, that will be taken care of by the GPU/s in a PC but the actual game code will run well on a crap little APU.

This is good for PC gaming. Any one who had any second thoughts about a console can easily jump into PC gaming for less money than the console (£250 buys a semi capable gaming rig these days and it's only going to improve IMO).

From all of the research I've done (because of the rigs I own, a multitude of variation) recent games don't want much from a CPU. I'm seeing 8 core use with spikes, but I just wonder how many of those cores and what % is going into running Windows underneath. But for example, Tomb Raider. 6 cores load up to about 19%. That's pretty pathetic tbh.
 
D3D12 will exist alongside D3D11.3 which will continue to be high-level bloaty.

Not all games will magically jump to 12. In fact it will probably come down to money and end up like DX10 all over again.
 
10 was every bit as good as 11 and did most of the juicy stuff it just never caught on.

HSA and Mantle though? well, they're what will allow coders to exploit the low powered hardware in both of the new consoles and what will allow them to squeeze out all of that extra performance so they're very big indeed.

DX12 is just another confirmation that CPUs are about to be left in the dust. It may fail, but no doubt there will be a DX13 of sorts given the Xbone really needs something like that, especially because the hardware in the Xbone is not as good as the PS4.

I am currently playing through HL2 with the Fakefactory Cinematic mod and in all honesty DX9 can still kick it. The only thing I could really criticise it for is not having the tesselation so the face detail is a little bit crap. Other than that though? it's all about setting your mind to something.

DX10 was uber powerful and most of the DX11 stuff was doable in 10. I remember there was a hack for Dirt 2 where you could activate all of the lighting and shadows and so on.

Problem with DX10 was that the Xbox 360 was not really powerful enough to execute it properly. Then came DX11... Both were just test runs for the Xbone.

Nothing M$ have done since Motocross Madness and Midtown Madness were for PC gamers. They totally moved over to their consoles because they can charge that fat old licensing fee on their consoles. They can't charge it in Windows, so they copped the nark and decided to make everything of theirs Xbox only and exclusive.

So whatever they're doing it ain't for us. Which is why I'm quite thankful AMD have managed to merge technology so that PC gamers benefit from the consoles. These could be the last new consoles ever really.
 
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