Winter tires
- Thread starter the wopster
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
It highlights my point perfectly. A Medicore summer tyre and it STILL beats many of the winter tyres in the wet and is just 6 points behind the winning tyre, the Goodyear Ultragrip7, in the wet! (282 v 288). It only comes bottom because it is absolutely dire - as you would expect - in snow. If you remove snow from the points testing the summer tyre comes in the top 3!
So if a medicore summer tyre - a mid range tyre - is almost as good in the wet as those winter tyres, how would a tyre known for its excellent wet weather performance - like for example Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 2, fare?
From those numbers I cannot see how it wouldn't have beaten every tyre on test in the wet, given I'd imagine its significantly ahead of the PremiumContact (Being of course a higher class of tyre)...
I will shut up the day somebody unbiased books the Contidrome when it's 2c outside and tests the sort of summer tyres people here actually use against winter tyres..
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[TW]Fox;19845905 said:
what you mean is a traditional London and below winter! us northern folk have proper hard winters
Yea, your snow arrives in October and it stays until a thaw in May, right?
No, it doesn't. Not at all. NOBODY in the UK except perhaps a few people on high ground have a proper hard winter. I agree that up in Cumbria you will get a HARDER winter, but I would imagine people in Austria or Canada would fall over themselves laughing at you describing it as a 'proper hard winter'
In a proper hard winter, the snow doesn't dissapear in time for the Boxing Day sales.
I would predict that the marketing departments of the various tyre companies would have a brain hemorrhage at the thought of a truly independent unbiased group test on all tyres under all conditions!
I'd imagine the marketing world would implode if somebody braked from 70mph at 2c in the wet with an Eagle F1 Assymetric 2 fitted in less distance than the winter tyres 
Which is why when it comes to summer tests all the big names are out with detailed stats yet when it comes to winter the best we get is 'A summer tyre' or, if there is a named tyre, it's midrange at best..
Which is why when it comes to summer tests all the big names are out with detailed stats yet when it comes to winter the best we get is 'A summer tyre' or, if there is a named tyre, it's midrange at best..
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[TW]Fox;19845954 said:Yea, your snow arrives in October and it stays until a thaw in May, right?
No, it doesn't. Not at all. NOBODY in the UK except perhaps a few people on high ground have a proper hard winter. I agree that up in Cumbria you will get a HARDER winter, but I would imagine people in Austria or Canada would fall over themselves laughing at you describing it as a 'proper hard winter'
In a proper hard winter, the snow doesn't dissapear in time for the Boxing Day sales.
O heck don't mention the boxing day sales
We dont get a proper anything in this country weather wise. We just dont have the climate for it. We don't get a proper summer and we certainly don't get a proper winter. What we get is varying degrees of 'meh' all year round, with occasional peaks into 'oooh' - ie, it hits 30c (Which it does every single day in many parts of the world) which means we must run front page stories full of loads of people cramming onto Brighton beach, or it snows for 3 weeks which means it's an apocolypse and we need to revise down GDP growth figures or legislate for winter tyres.
The very fact that any snow or any temperature more than 25c is newsworthy makes it quite clear that neither are exactly normal for most parts of the UK.
The very fact that any snow or any temperature more than 25c is newsworthy makes it quite clear that neither are exactly normal for most parts of the UK.
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[TW]Fox;19845999 said:
Having lived and drove in Germany for 3 years and few Slovenia winters too.
I love laughing at how this country nearly comes to a stand still with a splash off snow?
It's fairly obvious - it comes to a standstill because snow is sufficiently rare for it to be inappropriate for us to spend billions on the sort of intrafrastructure that countries which suffer far more harsly from snow suffer from. People rarley experience it and don't know what to do when they do - there is no real driver education because it's so rare.
Last year I remember shovelling snow from the hill into the work carpark and a woman came trying to drive up in a Fiesta. She was just nailing the throttle in 1st. I suggested she tried 2nd and up she went. Was she stupid? No, she just didn't know because nobody had taught her.
Last winter areas of Texas found itself with a load of snow dumped on it. In Texas. What happened? Same thing that happens here. Everyone crashed and life stood still because snow in Texas is not something they deal with very often.
Whereas in Alberta, Canada, the snow turns up at the same time every year, stays there for half the year, then goes away. Everyone can drive in snow because they spend so much time doing it.
Throw a heatwave at Norway and they fall over. Throw snow at Norway and its no big deal. Yet nobody is bothered by heat in Las Vegas..
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One of the best tips I got shown in the army was
Put the car in first or second take foot of clutch/gas peddle and let the engine take the car up hill.
No clutch or rev's needed really does work in the snow
Put the car in first or second take foot of clutch/gas peddle and let the engine take the car up hill.
No clutch or rev's needed really does work in the snow
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Unlike Fox, I will be fitting winter tyres this year, specifically the set of WR-G2s that were on the car last year and currently sitting safely in the shed. Additionally we will be ordering a second set to go on my GF's S13 200SX that she uses as a daily driver.
Why? Because unlike Fox who lives about 3 milimeters above sea level, I live in the Welsh valleys, on the side of a hill and drive up an down a number of steep hills, some of which are ungritted.
While it's true that my GF was able to get her car home from work in the snow last year, this process involved putting the car in 2nd (it's an auto) and driving up the hill at a 45 degree angle. She also took a longer route for a slightly less steep hill. Many others ended up abandoning their cars on the side of that other hill and they all got broken into that night.
The other reason I have them is to indulge her hobby of photography, even though my car doesn't have proper offroad-style 4WD, combined with winter tyres it's enough to head up into remote places with the camera and let her take pretty pictures. I've posted some of them in last year's thread on winter tyres so won't bother doing so again unless asked.
Even in the cold but dry (and it does get cold up this way) the WR-G2s performed better than the Eagle F1 GSD3s that I run the rest of the time, and in the ice, snow and compacted snow the difference was huge. I did actually do some before and after comparisons, one of which had me sliding out of an ungritted iced up slide street into a main despite only the most gentle of braking and very low speeds. A bit later with new tyres and that street posed no problems.
There are plenty of roads around here where they only grit one lane, often quite poorly, so the winter tyres can mean having a whole lane to yourself to bypass queues. Just be very careful if someone decides to follow you, particularly if it's one of the more pretentious 4x4s that run summer tyres.
Oh and a word on cost. My summer tyres cost me £125 a corner fitted, the winters cost me £70 a corner fitted, a second set of alloys off ebay cost me £21. Even with that one off purchase included the time spent driving around wearing out my winter tyres is time not spent wearing out my more expensive summer tyres. Not only am I safer but I am actually saving money.
This wouldn't be true if I'd waited until November or December to buy, the price doubles shortly after the first snowfall as every bugger starts buying them. Now is the time to buy!
Why? Because unlike Fox who lives about 3 milimeters above sea level, I live in the Welsh valleys, on the side of a hill and drive up an down a number of steep hills, some of which are ungritted.
While it's true that my GF was able to get her car home from work in the snow last year, this process involved putting the car in 2nd (it's an auto) and driving up the hill at a 45 degree angle. She also took a longer route for a slightly less steep hill. Many others ended up abandoning their cars on the side of that other hill and they all got broken into that night.
The other reason I have them is to indulge her hobby of photography, even though my car doesn't have proper offroad-style 4WD, combined with winter tyres it's enough to head up into remote places with the camera and let her take pretty pictures. I've posted some of them in last year's thread on winter tyres so won't bother doing so again unless asked.
Even in the cold but dry (and it does get cold up this way) the WR-G2s performed better than the Eagle F1 GSD3s that I run the rest of the time, and in the ice, snow and compacted snow the difference was huge. I did actually do some before and after comparisons, one of which had me sliding out of an ungritted iced up slide street into a main despite only the most gentle of braking and very low speeds. A bit later with new tyres and that street posed no problems.
There are plenty of roads around here where they only grit one lane, often quite poorly, so the winter tyres can mean having a whole lane to yourself to bypass queues. Just be very careful if someone decides to follow you, particularly if it's one of the more pretentious 4x4s that run summer tyres.
Oh and a word on cost. My summer tyres cost me £125 a corner fitted, the winters cost me £70 a corner fitted, a second set of alloys off ebay cost me £21. Even with that one off purchase included the time spent driving around wearing out my winter tyres is time not spent wearing out my more expensive summer tyres. Not only am I safer but I am actually saving money.
This wouldn't be true if I'd waited until November or December to buy, the price doubles shortly after the first snowfall as every bugger starts buying them. Now is the time to buy!
Some really informative posts Fox, thanks for those.
Winters were def helpful for me last year, but I do live in Scotland, yeah we did have snow for about a month or so, but it takes the authorities a few days to get the main routes going (except M8 lol) so decent summer tyres would have coped. Imagine if folks would spend the extra on decent instead of budget summer/all season tyres instead of buying winters.
I think the main point is driving experience in the winter conditions, don't buy into the higher gear thing entirely, just having more finesse in a lower gear works fine.
Winters were def helpful for me last year, but I do live in Scotland, yeah we did have snow for about a month or so, but it takes the authorities a few days to get the main routes going (except M8 lol) so decent summer tyres would have coped. Imagine if folks would spend the extra on decent instead of budget summer/all season tyres instead of buying winters.
I think the main point is driving experience in the winter conditions, don't buy into the higher gear thing entirely, just having more finesse in a lower gear works fine.
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Whilst Fox does seem quite butthurt about winter tyres (and I’d agree with Lum that where you live makes a big difference), Fox does make a good point… why can’t one of the tyre manufacturers or magazines or review websites do some good tests between top summer tyres and top winter tyres? That would end the argument once and for all!
EDIT: What are Dunlop Sport Maxx's like? As that's what Evo had on their Jaguar XFR before getting stuck in snow and fitting Pirelli Sotto Zeros for Winter.
EDIT: What are Dunlop Sport Maxx's like? As that's what Evo had on their Jaguar XFR before getting stuck in snow and fitting Pirelli Sotto Zeros for Winter.
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People keep mentioning summer tyres, and it really bugs me - would someone please (if such a thing exists) define what the difference is (from all season tyres)?
I'm pretty sure the term "summer tyre" is a marketing term used when advocating winter tyres, to generate more sales in areas that have a more temperate environment, such as the UK.
I'm pretty sure the term "summer tyre" is a marketing term used when advocating winter tyres, to generate more sales in areas that have a more temperate environment, such as the UK.
Not as good as the more popular performance tyres but not bad - but nobody is claiming normal tyres are anything other than rubbish in snow.
I wonder if my light RWD MX-5 on relatively narrow tyres will be better in snow than my ridiculously heavy but with mega-wide tyres RWD S-Class should it snow again this year...
P.S. It snowed for a lot longer than 3 weeks in Manchester and was a LOT colder than 0, it was -18c for long periods!
P.S. It snowed for a lot longer than 3 weeks in Manchester and was a LOT colder than 0, it was -18c for long periods!