Wiring in new double socket

runs withscissors · 23 May 2022 at 22:46

I wanted to wire in a new double socket from an existing double socket. So I was going to split the line with a 30A junction box and attach new cable to a double socket for an electric fire place.

It looks straight forward but is there anything I should be aware of or anything I should be taking into consideration?

casper_uk · 24 May 2022 at 01:22

Do the old fashioned style junction boxes still get used? I think it's all wago boxes/connections these days that are recommended.

LuckyBenski · 24 May 2022 at 01:40

Firstly check whether the existing socket is part of a ring. If it's a spur you can't extend that. You can make a single spur off of a ring. As this is for a heater and not something low energy, I'd stick to the regulations.

Beyond that, common sense prevails i.e. place the socket in a permissible location, use a decent connection method (junction box or wago will both work), etc.

runs withscissors · 24 May 2022 at 02:57

Thanks for the reply’s I have seen those wago boxes but just like the look of a three-way junction box. The plan was to spur it into a 2 gang switched socket with an rcd just for the extra protection because its a heater.

Is there a good way to check if it’s a ring circuit ?

Uhtred · 24 May 2022 at 05:41

One way to tell is the rating of the circuit breaker. A ring will most likely be 32 amps. Another option if you have an EICR it will tell you in there.

You could also look behind the existing socket, if it's on a ring it will have a 2.5mm twin and earth coming in and 2.5mm twin and earth going back out.

If that's the case then you can run a third cable from the socket terminals to your new socket, no junction required.

If you only have one cable coming into the existing socket then it's a spur already, which as above you cannot extend, or (less likely) it's the end of a radial.

runs withscissors · 24 May 2022 at 06:13

Uhtred said:
One way to tell is the rating of the circuit breaker. A ring will most likely be 32 amps. Another option if you have an EICR it will tell you in there.

You could also look behind the existing socket, if it's on a ring it will have a 2.5mm twin and earth coming in and 2.5mm twin and earth going back out.

If that's the case then you can run a third cable from the socket terminals to your new socket, no junction required.

If you only have one cable coming into the existing socket then it's a spur already, which as above you cannot extend, or (less likely) it's the end of a radial.

I will have a look at the socket and the circuit breaker.

When you say run a third cable do you mean add the new socket into the the existing ring circuit or do you mean run a third cable form the old existing socket ?

Many thanks

Uhtred · 24 May 2022 at 06:40

Run a third cable (2.5mm twin and earth) from the existing socket, by doing this you'll be creating a spur on the ring.

By the way, I haven't tried these yet but you can get screw less sockets now which should make this kind of job a breeze.

MK Logic Plus Rapid Fix 13A 2-Gang DP Switched Socket White with White Inserts - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Makes wiring a socket faster, easier and safer through the adoption of screwless terminals. Features spring-loaded terminal clamps to ensure no loose wires for a safer connection. Individual terminal entry points, each accepting 4mm² rigid (solid or stranded) cable...

www.screwfix.com

edit - this video might be helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a9yNLxBj-M

200sols · 24 May 2022 at 08:00

runs withscissors said:
Thanks for the reply’s I have seen those wago boxes but just like the look of a three-way junction box. The plan was to spur it into a 2 gang switched socket with an rcd just for the extra protection because its a heater.

Is there a good way to check if it’s a ring circuit ?

If your circuits are not already protected with RCDs then you are not legally allowed to do this work yourself.

a1ex2001 · 24 May 2022 at 08:54

Uhtred said:
Run a third cable (2.5mm twin and earth) from the existing socket, by doing this you'll be creating a spur on the ring.

By the way, I haven't tried these yet but you can get screw less sockets now which should make this kind of job a breeze.

MK Logic Plus Rapid Fix 13A 2-Gang DP Switched Socket White with White Inserts - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Makes wiring a socket faster, easier and safer through the adoption of screwless terminals. Features spring-loaded terminal clamps to ensure no loose wires for a safer connection. Individual terminal entry points, each accepting 4mm² rigid (solid or stranded) cable...

www.screwfix.com

edit - this video might be helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a9yNLxBj-M

I’ve been hoping someone would make a socket like that for ages! It is such a pain trying to squeeze up to three wires into the same terminal hole and the inevitability of putting your screwdriver down and not being able to find it at the key moment! I shall be buying some of these!

Reuben klang · 24 May 2022 at 09:26

I’ve been hoping someone would make a socket like that for ages! It is such a pain trying to squeeze up to three wires into the same terminal hole and the inevitability of putting your screwdriver down and not being able to find it at the key moment! I shall be buying some of these!

I bought the 5 pack and added a couple of extra sockets in my garage and front door cupboard. They’re bloody excellent and take seconds. It takes longer to screw them on. Knowing that each one is torqued perfectly as well is such a game changer.

Just be a matter of time before they start doing screwless ones in black or chrome.

runs withscissors · 24 May 2022 at 19:24

Cheers guys thanks for all the helpful information

a1ex2001 · 24 May 2022 at 19:55

Reuben klang said:
I’ve been hoping someone would make a socket like that for ages! It is such a pain trying to squeeze up to three wires into the same terminal hole and the inevitability of putting your screwdriver down and not being able to find it at the key moment! I shall be buying some of these!

I bought the 5 pack and added a couple of extra sockets in my garage and front door cupboard. They’re bloody excellent and take seconds. It takes longer to screw them on. Knowing that each one is torqued perfectly as well is such a game changer.

Just be a matter of time before they start doing screwless ones in black or chrome.

They’ve said if they are popular they will expand to the full range of items too so we will get light switches, fused spurs etc really would make a massive difference!

Reuben klang · 24 May 2022 at 21:29

a1ex2001 said:
They’ve said if they are popular they will expand to the full range of items too so we will get light switches, fused spurs etc really would make a massive difference!

Would be epic if they did, imagine the time saved doing full houses or office buildings etc be incredible. It’s ones of those where we really need sparks on commercial jobs to be using them to get the sales up - price probably means we won’t see it sadly even though the saving in time is for all to see.

Sorry for the derail!

Nikumba · 5 Jun 2022 at 07:43

Uhtred said:
By the way, I haven't tried these yet but you can get screw less sockets now which should make this kind of job a breeze.

MK Logic Plus Rapid Fix 13A 2-Gang DP Switched Socket White with White Inserts - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Makes wiring a socket faster, easier and safer through the adoption of screwless terminals. Features spring-loaded terminal clamps to ensure no loose wires for a safer connection. Individual terminal entry points, each accepting 4mm² rigid (solid or stranded) cable...

www.screwfix.com

Just fitted our new kitchen with these utter game changer, Dad called them cheating lol but yeah pay the extra quid or so and get these so much easier to wire up sockets.

robj20 · 5 Jun 2022 at 08:02

a1ex2001 said:
I’ve been hoping someone would make a socket like that for ages! It is such a pain trying to squeeze up to three wires into the same terminal hole and the inevitability of putting your screwdriver down and not being able to find it at the key moment! I shall be buying some of these!

Odd that it only accepts up to 4mm. All mine are 6mm so they wouldn't work for me.

200sols · 5 Jun 2022 at 08:18

robj20 said:
Odd that it only accepts up to 4mm. All mine are 6mm so they wouldn't work for me.

Why are they 6mm that is massive, most will be 2.5mm rings.

robj20 · 5 Jun 2022 at 08:34

200sols said:
Why are they 6mm that is massive, most will be 2.5mm rings.

I didn't want rings in my house so all are 6mm radials. That's why 4mm seems an odd max size as you generally have either a 6mm radial or 2.5mm ring.

a1ex2001 · 5 Jun 2022 at 09:03

robj20 said:
I didn't want rings in my house so all are 6mm radials. That's why 4mm seems an odd max size as you generally have either a 6mm radial or 2.5mm ring.

Interesting and really unusual, what prompted that decision?

200sols · 5 Jun 2022 at 09:07

robj20 said:
I didn't want rings in my house so all are 6mm radials. That's why 4mm seems an odd max size as you generally have either a 6mm radial or 2.5mm ring.

Probably due to the connector size, the ones that take 6mm are a bit larger.

Uhtred · 5 Jun 2022 at 09:08

a1ex2001 said:
Interesting and really unusual, what prompted that decision?

Ring circuits are a bad system, if I had a rewire I'd want radials. It's too easy to have a break in a ring and it not be noticed.