Work and career progression apathy.. Is it much more prevalent now?

[413x]

Thought about this thread for a while. And the OF thread encouraged me to create it.

It may well just be me, or an anecdotal thing. Where I'm friends with these people because they are like me. But in my peer group not many people are pushing for the next step.

I should add that most of my peer group earn good (above average) salaries but under 100. But no one seems to want the next level (me inc). More than one has even stepped back from middle manager roles.

I'm not sure if it's because many of us don't have kids (late 30s mainly) and that need to leave an inheritance isn't there. But I shush see it with my sisters who do have a kid each.
Or it's just that the next step (managing for many of us) isn't worth the hassle. I've never wanted any of my managers jobs. And that the tax burden is such that paying it into pension is only sensible thing. But that doesn't seem Rewarding.

From what I've seen next step includes (often) overtime (paid or not) and stress (from above and below that middle position) and being already in the 40pc bracket, even 10k pay rise is only a few hundred a month. Ie, it's not going to change your life.


I'd say it isn't anecdotal as a 4 day week is being talked about more and more. I know far more people that would take a 4 day week vs a pay rise. Even a 4 day week with a pay cut

With state pension age always on the up, and most peoples pensions not able to allow you to retire before this.. Its there really any reward in the 50-125k band (where many end up) in this case.. Assuming the hassle and work life balance starts to swing to work?


For myself I am definitely in the "I'm done now, I certainly don't want more stress for more money. I want time.

We have a lot of high flyers here on the forum, and obviously those in the mega salary (ie over 150k) that's different. If you have got there, yes. I totally see the benefits.

But in that 50-125k..for those that are there... Who do have the stress.. Its it worth it?

 

[413x]

What I would point out to you is that you don’t necessarily have to be in senior management to be on 6 figures now. I’m in engineering, semiconductors, and plenty of individual contributors are on well into 6 figures.

There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to go into management. Lots of people just want to be ICs all their career and that’s fine, but you do tend to hit a wall with reward. For me I’m at the cusp of whether I stay as an IC or push on into management. And I’m leaning toward management, mainly because I get frustrated with some of our processes and want to change them. And because I like the company I work for and I like the people I work with, and sadly, I care a lot about it. I’m not motivated to go into it for money.

So I think the decision of whether you go into management I think a lot of it depends on the company you work for and the people you work with.

Yeah for sure.
I have a friend on this path as he's super smart with maths/IT. So he Doesn't have to manage to get onto that. But I feel this is specialised skilled roles.

But for many of us wouldn't get to the next run without a lot of effort. Ie learning a new skill outside of work, taking on management, or going contracting (in my case). And many question..is it worth it for 10k pay rise? Often not.

 

[413x]

I like to do, not delegate, so management is a hard pass for me, even if it does cap my earning potential, I don't really care.

We are DINKs though, so that helps.

Same for both of us too.
Neither of us are 'manager' types.
But that DINK makes it a lot easier to not need more cash.

 

[413x]

I've been and done most of it tbh

I stayed on an upward trajectory from when I started work in my 20s until I was around that 150k area, working in finance, living abroad, working some crazy hours and stress and BS toxic workplaces. Sacked that all off for a career change into games. Dropped down to about 30k initially, and crept back up to over double that after a decade+. I've been in management roles most of my professional life.

Tbh not having kids or a predeliction for money-pits like cars I haven't found the money side of things very different over the years. I've always had 'enough'.

I did drop back to a principal engineer role a few years ago, a 'a just do the coding' job. It bored the living daylights out of me, maybe some people like just ticking over, but it's not for me.

I've found since packing in alcohol entirely that I've got plenty of time and energy to hold down a difficult and challenging job while still having a very active and fulfilling life outside work. Ditching the booze has been the key to making it all work.

Alas. I've never found a job I've loved.
I'm in a position where I don't even know how I'd get into one. Especially when, tbh, I don't like work.

I really envy my friend who's on for 150k job when he finished his course, I just do not have the love for learning he does. But I wish I did.

Unfortunately I love doing outdoorsy stuff that would never pay a decent wage.
Its a real bind and I can't figure it out!

If I won a million I'd give up work tomorrow.

 

[413x]

I had 2 jobs I loved - both were early in my career and both 30-35K in the early 2000s. Pretty simple NOC work for separate Telcos doing transmission stuff.

Had an absolutely great time with both and had amazing managers and a great team environment. I actually looked forward to going to work back then and quite happily took extra shifts. Pub at lunchtime pretty much every day too - often by the river in summer.

Sadly the first one wouldn't bring my pay up - I think because of my age which gave me the hump in the end. The second one made redundancies after about 18 months which was a massive shame. I was gutted but at least it paid for me to go travelling.

Hitting 6 figures is nice until you realise that you can't have nice things and have to dump as much as possible into tax-efficient vehicles, as Freefaller said earlier.

I'm over the 40pc barrier. But not by much. And I feel the pressure to contribute more to my pension.
But because I've swung to a more "now" attitude, it makes progression with hassle unappealing.

My finance. Brain says "you must put everything over 50k into a pension ass you don't need it"
Which makes sense.
My heart says "if you're living for now, what's the point in trying anymore if you're adding any amount of burden to your life"

Obviously I'm not going to turn down a payrise in a new job I want. But the money driver for a harder job is no longer there.

The real red line is over time. I refuse to take any job that has an expectation of working past 37.5 hours a week.

 

[413x]

I think it's a good thing actually, people are re-evaluating their work/life balance (possibly post-covid/WFH etc. related?) and realising that maximising earnings isn't necessarily a true measure of success and the only goal worth pursuing.

I've certainly developed that mindset over the last few years; I enjoy my job, it pays well enough that we don't have to scrimp and save, and the level of stress & frustration is... let's say "appropriate" for the compensation.

While obviously I wouldn't say no to an extra few ££££, I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice my current work/life balance for it.

Agreed. At a personal level I think it's empowering. But at a UK productivity level? Probably not so good

 

[413x]

I mentioned this in another thread, but for me personally, the amount of people I've seen either becoming very ill or dropping dead in their 40s and 50s is highly alarming. Good reason to retire as soon as you can IMO.

Is probably because as get older you just see it first hand more. But it does certainly feel like it

 

[413x]

I went into middle management after leaving a European role due to the travelling becoming too much. Absolutely hated man management although i always personally got good feedback in manager reviews, so I must have been doing something right.

My salary is above the national average and probably well above the average in the area i live and I am comfortable. I do my 37.5hrs a week and I shut off and thats how I like it. With management I could never do that and would find myself working at weekends free of charge just to keep in front.

As for 4 day weeks, ill only take this if its a reduction in overall hours. I have absolutely Zero interest in squeezing my 37.5hrs into 4 days. F-That...

I'd take that. I'd rather 1 extra day and compressed work days

 

[413x]

I'm at the stage where I'm happy on low-mid 6 figures and want time for self / family. I have been moving myself away from being a team manager to being a technical expert / individual contributor.

I work far better on my own that having to persuade useless ****wits to do stuff for me. Better earning potential, satisfaction, and variety (for me) doing consultancy projects, delivering, then moving on. People also leave you alone more and out of all the BS meetings and team events, which I just hate.

Low mid 6 figures... I'd be pretty happy with that.. But only if it came with no extra work hours. I'm mid 50s base

Would be absolutely no worries. Think of the holidays!

 

[413x]

Wouldn't more bands be better? So there are fewer cliff edges? I dunno

 

[413x]

lol that is some strange perspective there if under £40k is a pittance.
I am on around that (a bit more perhaps , not exactly sure due to complicated set up) and it is the most I have ever or likely will ever earn.
whilst I am not loaded , equally with a bit of money management I am more fortunate than many and have a comfortable life style.

50-60k seems alot to me. But my lifestyle hasn't crept too much. Holidays have cut back my saving. But other than that. No.

I live in a cheap area and have cheap core costs. So the appeal of going higher isn't that appealing.

30-50 seemed huge. But even 45-55 felt like 'more to save' then anything matterial.

 

[413x]

should be one band only, a "single rate of income tax", a percentage, which, by definition, is "the more you earn the more you pay", a phrase used to justify the punitive tax bands we currently have.

Have to disagree. That's insanely crippling to the poorest.

 

[413x]

Those little chunks of "more to save" really do add up over time though. It's insane the difference it makes. I'm right on the edge of what I can tolerate right now as far as work/life balance goes.

I could probably move to something like a hedge fund and earn perhaps another 40-50K total package but can't deal with the extra stress.


That's why you have a personal allowance that's set at a level to make sure they don't suffer.

I still think that would be too much in favour of the mega rich. Because there's so many people at the bottom you probably couldn't raise the threshold enough. You still need some uplift on higher salaries

I'd does add up. But my mind has convinced me I need to focus on now and that most peoples retirements suck. Unless you have an enormous pension

 

[413x]

It has been recorded in serveal surveys that most people earn their lifetime highest salary betweent 40 and 49, after that it goes down hill.

Not sure if that's by choice with people stepping back, discovering their dream role is a nightmare or if people post 49 have it harder to find similar salary work due to their age if they are made redundant or have to move companies due to relocation or something.

For me, it comes in peaks and troughs. There's been times in my career where I wouldn't say I've been career minded but dead interested in what I was doing and as a result produced my best work and promotion/recognition is just an side affect.

There's been times where I remain professional and just do my job. Zero interest in the actual work or adding any additional value benefits and as a result progression was slow..

At the moment, I'm in a trough. I'm not in a position to make decisions, all of our work is security and business driven. We was in that much tech debt that what we are doing now, I'm done most of in the past, I'm just doing it in a different way now, so it's not exciting work. I rely on other people to tell me what I need to know and then look into it and even then due to the environment we operate in, it will be some wierd frankenstein of a solution..

Unless I make a change I think I'm peaking now

 

[413x]

Same. Definitely find learning less appealing and I'm less able to pick me things up. Part of that is interest and part age/fatigue

Not sure if many others in that age range like myself fall into the same rut, but yeah, I'm keenly aware that I'm probably at my peak earnings potential now, which is why I'm clinging on.

I feel like I don't have the techy sponge brain I used to have, so learning a lot of the newer stuff to a very high level is much more difficult than it would have been in the past. Things are also changing much more quickly now, and unfortunately I do find that I'm losing my enthusiasm for it somewhat. I just see it as a means to an end rather than something I truly enjoy now.

If I was younger, it would be sink or swim now, but in my position I'll be glad to see the back of it all in a couple of years.

 

[413x]

Not if you lift the tax threshold high enough.

I don't think you could.

You'd have to tax wealth or something to make up the short fall.

For some reason no one (politicians) want to

 

[413x]

150k+ ain’t mega salary territory. Don’t get me wrong it’s good. But when you take the overall tax rate, loss of personal allowance and all the benefits like childcare you lose. It doesn’t allow you to live life without cares . Esp in London etc.

To me £50k+ is a decent salary. £100k+ is a comfortable salary. £150k+ is a good salary. £300k+ takes away most cares. £1m+ is mega salary territory.

To me 150k is definitely a mega salary.
150k would shave years off my work life.
Or materially change my day to day.

In my position, I'd certainly have no cares at all!

I'd be taking home about 3k extra a month.
That's an insane amount of extra money.

Not even sure what I'd do. Increase pension I guess and retire a bit earlier. Divest into property?
Not have to skimp on holiday transport. (ie not using Ryan Air!)

For me 50k is comfortable, 100k would be excellent and 150k+ would be "no worries"


I mean.. 3k extra a month. Could have a deposit for a house in a year just with the extra!

 

[413x]

I have to agree, 150k to me would see me living extremely comfortable. But this is because I live in Scotland and I would live in a home I could afford on 80ish if I ever got that high.

I'm in a strange situation where I'll climb to probably 80ish soon enough (without promotion, with o/t etc) with the opportunity to rise into management if I crave it.

But my job is a dream, and not sure I'll want that extra burden. That said when I do the pension calculations, anything extra makes such a significance difference that it does make me consider it in 5-6 years. My pension scheme is crazy though and definitely incentives you to want that extra money/promotion.

Yeah my Pension scheme is naff. Which makes it much less appealing to contribute over the match. I could put more in than I do, but I don't.
I think my limit is 70 in the near term. Which is fine.
By fine I mean.. Money is no longer as important as it was like when I was on 35.

Only viable next big step for me would be working for myself. I'd rather that than middle management

 

[413x]

It's cliché and been done to death but if you earn an extra 3k as mentioned you'd probably end up just spending it.

You'd have 2 cars. A much bigger house.
Maybe a 2nd or 3rd 10k holiday a year.

It's really easy to spend 3k a month and have nothing but upgrades to the basics.

I don't think so.
I'd certainly spend some of it. But not all.
I don't want a big house or another car. I'd probably upgrade to an EV though.

I'd probably end up spending 1000 of it.

 

[413x]

I think you guys are the contrary to the masses. I have a very pessimistic view of the future though. Obviously clouds my judgement. I'm not going to die with millions in the bank or give half away to a taxman.

There would be some creep im sure most danger there is a car.

Put it this way.

If I had 2 jobs.
A) 150k but it's the normal. 9-5, 5 days a week, 25 days holiday.
B) 60k but you get 50 days off?

I'd take the 60k job.