Workaround: FreeSync on nVidia GPUs

melmac · 27 Sep 2018 at 12:59

ubersonic said:
Well, not to sound like a ****, but it's because I wasn't voicing an opinion merely pointing out some facts. AMD have been trying to get other companies to adopt Freesync for years (like with Mantle before that), they aren't going to randomly get upset about it becoming available on Nvidia via exploits.

Seriously that's like saying the USA would be upset if North Korea gave up it's nukes and surrendered to the South lol.

LOL I know it's completely bizarre. Getting Peeved about gamers using an open standard that they have been pushing for years

Every person that switches to a Freesync monitor is a win for AMD.

Gregster · 27 Sep 2018 at 13:00

ubersonic said:
Well, not to sound like a ****, but it's because I wasn't voicing an opinion merely pointing out some facts. AMD have been trying to get other companies to adopt Freesync for years (like with Mantle before that), they aren't going to randomly get upset about it becoming available on Nvidia via exploits.

Seriously that's like saying the USA would be upset if North Korea gave up it's nukes and surrendered to the South lol.

melmac said:
No it's not. You think Nvidia are happy about this? For every Nvidia GPU owner that uses this hack, they lose a sale of a Gsync monitor. They lose one more person tied into their system. You can beg to differ all you want, but your original comment still makes no sense. Adaptive Sync is an open standard, getting peeved about other companies using an open standard is silly.

It's only Nvidia who will be upset with this as they stand to lose the most.

Well we will have to agree to disagree on this. You guys are staunch and so am I

melmac · 27 Sep 2018 at 13:08

IT Troll said:
But they are not Freesync monitors. They are DisplayPort Adaptive Sync monitors which are compatible with Freesync. Freesync is just the marketing term for the bit that happens in the driver. AMD's smart move was that they made Freesync royalty-free so that they can get their brand onto monitor spec sheets.

G-Sync on laptops just uses the same VESA Adaptive Sync standard without need of a dedicated module. So Nvidia can, and are already, doing this.

They are not Freesync monitors they are adaptive sync monitors but in the eyes of many people they are one and the same. In essence they have become Freesync monitors. Changing that mindset is going to be the problem for Nvidia. If Nvidia decide to use adaptive sync it will look like they are saying Freesync is better.

melmac · 27 Sep 2018 at 13:21

Gregster said:
Well we will have to agree to disagree on this. You guys are staunch and so am I

I can't understand why, because you keep missing the most important point, Adaptive sync is an open standard, it's only Nvidia that aren't supporting that open standard. IF they were going to be peeved about people using the open standard they shouldn't have made it an open standard.

Gregster · 27 Sep 2018 at 13:33

melmac said:
I can't understand why, because you keep missing the most important point, Adaptive sync is an open standard, it's only Nvidia that aren't supporting that open standard. IF they were going to be peeved about people using the open standard they shouldn't have made it an open standard.

Right, I have seen many times people ask for advice on getting a GPU and they have a Freesync monitor, so always the clear answer was AMD. Now that clear answer isn't clear and NVidia is now an option in many cases? Surely you can see this as bad for AMD?

Edit: As my positioning isn't going to change on this, let's put it another way...

G-Sync is exclusive to NVidia and has always been. Therefore, an NVidia GPU is required.
Freesync is exclusive to AMD and has always been. Therefore an AMD GPU is required but wait.... It isn't exclusive to AMD anymore and NVidia can use VRR under the right circumstance, so another lost sale to AMD and a sale to NVidia (which would have always been AMD historically)

Why AMD would be happy about that and NVidia angry is beyond me.

IT Troll · 27 Sep 2018 at 14:12

DragonQ said:
Yes, we all know this. What does it have to do with the sentence you quoted? Monitors aren't advertised as "adaptive sync compatible", they're advertised as "FreeSync compatible", which is good for AMD for all the reasons stated by melmac.

In the quote, the poster seem to think that AMD will not be happy that their Freesync trademarked monitors are being used with Nvidia cards and may wish to block this. Explaining that there is no special Freesync tech in these monitors and that adaptive sync is already being used by Nvidia seems entirely relevant to me.

Nelly · 27 Sep 2018 at 14:24

Well Nvidia will still lose out. Nvidia's G-Sync module will offset profit coming in at around $200 a piece, their G-Sync HDR module was quoted at adding $500 to the price of the new monitors being released.

Gregster · 27 Sep 2018 at 14:38

Nelly said:
Well Nvidia will still lose out. Nvidia's G-Sync module will offset profit coming in at around $200 a piece, their G-Sync HDR module was quoted at adding $500 to the price of the new monitors being released.

If that is the profit margin (which I have no idea if right or wrong), they deserve to lose out!

Edit:

Just googled G-Sync profit margins and couldn't find anything but would be interesting to know what the mark up is. I remember the very first iteration of the module and it should have sold for something silly like $20 (self fit).

Nelly · 27 Sep 2018 at 15:00

Gregster said:
If that is the profit margin (which I have no idea if right or wrong), they deserve to lose out!

Edit:

Just googled G-Sync profit margins and couldn't find anything but would be interesting to know what the mark up is. I remember the very first iteration of the module and it should have sold for something silly like $20 (self fit).

I'm not sure either, I picked up pricing off an article by KitGuru >> https://www.kitguru.net/peripherals...dule-could-cost-manufacturers-upwards-of-500/

Also includes where they got the pricing source for Nvidia's G-Sync HDR module >> https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graph...z-G-SYNC-Monitor-True-HDR-Arrives-Desktop/Tea

Gregster · 27 Sep 2018 at 15:12

Nelly said:
I'm not sure either, I picked up pricing off an article by KitGuru >> https://www.kitguru.net/peripherals...dule-could-cost-manufacturers-upwards-of-500/

Also includes where they got the pricing source for Nvidia's G-Sync HDR module >> https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graph...z-G-SYNC-Monitor-True-HDR-Arrives-Desktop/Tea

I have an OLED LG TV and would rather buy another one of those, set it up on my wall and use that as a gaming monitor rather than pay 2K for a 27" HDR monitor. I have used my TV briefly to see and it looks stunning but I could feel the latency but would forgo that for the colour depth of OLED. Gaming on a 55" TV 4 feet away.... Oooo yes please

Nelly · 27 Sep 2018 at 15:25

Gregster said:
I have an OLED LG TV and would rather buy another one of those, set it up on my wall and use that as a gaming monitor rather than pay 2K for a 27" HDR monitor. I have used my TV briefly to see and it looks stunning but I could feel the latency but would forgo that for the colour depth of OLED. Gaming on a 55" TV 4 feet away.... Oooo yes please

That sounds great, once I move down South within the next 2-3 years, I'm planning to buy an OLED TV.

My ideal setup would be two rigs, a large screen for games like GTA 5, and perhaps a 24" 1080p / 27" 1440p 120Hz+ for playing FPS shooter games.

Those 65" 120Hz Nvidia G-Sync HDR screens suddenly came into my head, I shudder to think how much they are going to cost? :eek:

EDIT: Acer Predator BFGD, ASUS ROG Swift PG65, HP OMEN X 65 BFGD >> https://www.anandtech.com/show/1272...ay-30-35in-and-bfgd-available-later-this-year

tommybhoy · 27 Sep 2018 at 15:30

Gregster said:
I remember the very first iteration of the module and it should have sold for something silly like $20 (self fit).

Your memory is rotten, DIY kit was $200!

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/g-sync-upgrade-kit,news-46931.html

Gregster · 27 Sep 2018 at 15:41

tommybhoy said:
Your memory is rotten, DIY kit was $200!

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/g-sync-upgrade-kit,news-46931.html

geeez, you are not wrong lol

ubersonic · 27 Sep 2018 at 15:54

Gregster said:
Why AMD would be happy about that and NVidia angry is beyond me.

I'll try again.

AMD want Nvidia users to have access to Freesync, Nvidia do not want Nvidia users to have access to Freesync (hence the speculation this workaround will get blocked in later drivers like the PhysX one did). The reason for this, is because if everyone has access to Freesync, then it will speed up the death of Gsync (which is proprietary tech designed to lock monitor owners to Nvidia GPUs). After Gsync dies, there will be no requirements for people to buy a GFX card based on what monitor they have (apart from the ones still using Gsync displays ofc) which means AMD will be able to offer cards to everyone once again, this is good for AMD (and the industry, and consumers).

TheRealDeal · 27 Sep 2018 at 15:57

Gregster said:
geeez, you are not wrong lol

Tbf mate you only missed out a 0

Gregster · 27 Sep 2018 at 16:19

ubersonic said:
I'll try again.

AMD want Nvidia users to have access to Freesync, Nvidia do not want Nvidia users to have access to Freesync (hence the speculation this workaround will get blocked in later drivers like the PhysX one did). The reason for this, is because if everyone has access to Freesync, then it will speed up the death of Gsync (which is proprietary tech designed to lock monitor owners to Nvidia GPUs). After Gsync dies, there will be no requirements for people to buy a GFX card based on what monitor they have (apart from the ones still using Gsync displays ofc) which means AMD will be able to offer cards to everyone once again, this is good for AMD (and the industry, and consumers).

Mate, I am not making you wrong but you are wrong

I genuinely see NVidia as being happy that Freesync will work on NVidia GPUs and it is another nail in the RTG coffin. NVidia sell enough GPUs and I can see your point about wanting to sell NVidia screens but if they can sell a GPU to a Freesync user, surely this is good for NVidia and bad for AMD?

Anyways, I can see you and Mel have your opinion on it, which I will respect and leave it there.

TheRealDeal said:
Tbf mate you only missed out a 0

Yer, dodgy Corsair k95 heyboard playing me up.... cough cough

Martini1991 · 27 Sep 2018 at 16:25

Regardless of being peeved or not, it's a lost sale.

chrcoluk · 27 Sep 2018 at 17:48

Clearly nvidia wont like it.

Think of this scenario.

Mr bloggs buys a freesync monitor.
He decides he loves freesync.
Nvidia then block it in their drivers.
Mr bloggs then replaces his nvidia GPU with an AMD GPU.

AMD probably think this is great news.

henson0115 · 27 Sep 2018 at 18:28

unless they disable directxgi support in the driver how else could they disable it?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/direct3ddxgi/d3d10-graphics-programming-guide-dxgi

melmac · 27 Sep 2018 at 19:35

Gregster said:
Edit: As my positioning isn't going to change on this, let's put it another way...

G-Sync is exclusive to NVidia and has always been. Therefore, an NVidia GPU is required.
Freesync is exclusive to AMD and has always been. Therefore an AMD GPU is required but wait.... It isn't exclusive to AMD anymore and NVidia can use VRR under the right circumstance, so another lost sale to AMD and a sale to NVidia (which would have always been AMD historically)

Why AMD would be happy about that and NVidia angry is beyond me.

You are claiming that AMD will be annoyed by this, but not Nvidia. Correct? Ok lets examine that.

What do we know? Well, AMD have pushing this open standard for the last few years. They have come out on several different occasions to promote this. They have made it clear that they want everyone to use Adaptive Sync monitors. Anyone that uses an adaptive sync monitor is win for AMD. Because it's something AMD started, it's something that is associated with AMD even to the point of people using the term "Freesync monitors" to describe Adaptive sync monitors.

Even you are doing, saying that Freesync is exclusive to AMD, because you are talking about monitors, the monitor side isn't exclusive to AMD, it never was. Intel, Nvidia, AMD, whoever has the means can connect to an Adaptive Sync monitor. Freesync is only AMD's driver for connecting to an Adaptive sync monitor.

That's why I believe that AMD are not going to be peeved about this hack in the slightest. The more people that use Adaptive Sync monitors the better for AMD. The less people buying expensive Gsync monitors and sticking with Nvidia the better it is for AMD.

Gregster said:
Mate, I am not making you wrong but you are wrong I genuinely see NVidia as being happy that Freesync will work on NVidia GPUs and it is another nail in the RTG coffin. NVidia sell enough GPUs and I can see your point about wanting to sell NVidia screens but if they can sell a GPU to a Freesync user, surely this is good for NVidia and bad for AMD?

Gregster said:
Anyways, I can see you and Mel have your opinion on it, which I will respect and leave it there.

Read your statement man, It makes no sense, if Nvidia are really happy that Freesync will work on Nvidia GPUs and put another nail in RTG's coffin why didn't they come out and make their GPU's compatible with Adaptive Sync monitors? No, This hack is going to annoy Nvidia the most, it's lost sales for them. Just look at their history Greg. They could have made money selling Nvidia GPUs to AMD owners to run Phsyx, but, they don't work like that, they blocked that off.

Now you are saying that they are going to be happy with people using Nvidia cards not connecting to Gsync monitors. Come on, not a hope Greg. They want to control every little detail and this will really annoy them that they can't block this off.

EDIT: Changed a few words because sometimes tone doesn't come across correctly on forum posts!!