working for your dole......

nick.lidgett · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:10

So I was just reading about Mr Osbournes policy of making the long term unemployed of this country working for their benefits by litter picking, graffiti removal and cooking meals for the oldies.

'So we’re saying there’s no option of doing nothing for your benefits. No something for nothing anymore.
'People are going to have to do things to get their dole and that is going to help them into work – that is the crucial point. This is all activity that is actually going to help them get ready for the world of work.'

George Osbourne

I think this is a marvellous idea, it certainly cant do any harm to these people and in the process the rest of us hard working individuals get to live in a litter/graffiti free environment and get to see some of our tax money going to good use while are grandparents are being fed like kings and queens.

However, and this is the sticking point for me, how can they implement this scheme, COST EFFECTIVELY?
I mean will it be like a chain gang with paid supervisors or will they be trusted to their own devices? I cant see how this can work in the real world.

Redz · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:14

nick.lidgett said:
However, and this is the sticking point for me, how can they implement this scheme, COST EFFECTIVELY?
I mean will it be like a chain gang with paid supervisors or will they be trusted to their own devices? I cant see how this can work in the real world.

Work camps would be the best idea. Just remember work sets you free.

Locky · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:15

You're effectively working 30 hours a week for 45 quids worth of JSA.

nick.lidgett · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:17

Redz said:
Work camps would be the best idea. Just remember work sets you free.

Well yeah that's another thing im not sure about, isn't this kind of like "forced labour", I mean yeah im all for the benefit claimers to work for their dole but something still seems a bit immoral about it to me, surely when you see these people out in their high vis jackets it will further fuel the "them and us" feelings.

nick.lidgett · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:17

Locky said:
You're effectively working 30 hours a week for 45 quids worth of JSA.

Where does it say about the hours of work, I may have missed that bit?

elmarko · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:18

If a person is working a full week they deserve a wage, not JSA.

JSA should be reserved for people who are currently not working but are actively seeking work.

The very most which should be enforceable is 7 hours a week (one full day) which at minimum wage works out to about the £45 a week (if this is really to get people to 'earn' the JSA payments), anything over that seems to be missing the point about what jobseekers allowance is meant to be for (ie, people who are not working).

Who whole thing isn't that sensible anyway, as it ignores the fact we currently have a deficit of available jobs - which regardless as to how many penalties they plan on inflicting on people seeking work it will never get everybody into employment.

Yet another short-sighted idea, not backed by any evidence meant to appease the "average 'Joe' on the street" who feels hard done by, who takes an element of pleasure from knowing those further down on the pecking order are getting shafted.

Schadenfreude at it's best.

Xordium · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:19

I think this is an absolutely great idea! Take one of the most vulnerable groups in society and place one of their raw basic and most intrinsic needs in the hands of people who haven't got the necessary skills to ensure the job is done right. I think they should extend this idea further and consider having convicted paedophiles work in schools as assistants therefore introducing some extra hands to help out and giving the felons a chance to practice self control and restraint.

joelk2 · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:20

its a good idea but i dont think it will ever be implemented.

the cost alone to set it up and manage it will outweigh the benefits.

County · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:20

Xordium said:
I think this is an absolutely great idea! Take one of the most vulnerable groups in society and place one of their raw basic and most intrinsic needs in the hands of people who haven't got the necessary skills to ensure the job is done right. I think they should extend this idea further and consider having convicted paedophiles work in schools as assistants therefore introducing some extra hands to help out and giving the felons a chance to practice self control and restraint.

I can see why you have 7k+ posts in 4 years

bitslice · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:21

The requirement to turn up every day at the job centre is poorly thought out, fine if you live near one but for someone near me they would spend all their JSA in just bus fares.
It's maybe a 2-3 hour round trip if you happen to have a bike.

Something more able to target obvious shirkers is required, without dumping on people who actually need this.

anderp · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:22

I had to go on to dole and I struggled to get a job, then ended up getting one without their help through an agency. My experience was their staff were awful. My other gripe was the people who have been on it for years, or who have 5 kids and pull in thousands upon thousands. If you can't support 'em, don't have 'em lol.

It just seems to shun the willing and help those who cba. Same for the "disabled" ones. So many in Stoke are like that, and clearly some are entitled but a lot aren't. I'm glad to be off dole, I hated every second of going to that place, and interacting with the people there. But when the government poke and prod saying they're gonna change it - change it for the better. Turf the dossers off and give it to the people who need it, not the people who can't be bothered get off their arses or who can't close their legs.

nick.lidgett · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:23

Xordium said:
I think this is an absolutely great idea! Take one of the most vulnerable groups in society and place one of their raw basic and most intrinsic needs in the hands of people who haven't got the necessary skills to ensure the job is done right. I think they should extend this idea further and consider having convicted paedophiles work in schools as assistants therefore introducing some extra hands to help out and giving the felons a chance to practice self control and restraint.

I see where you are coming from, Im still not 100% on the moralities of this suggested scheme, but I like it in principle.

Make · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:23

If it's work, I'd expect minimum wage for it.

If it's social security, I wouldn't expect to work for it. I would expect the government to help me survive until I can find a job that pays a wage.

That's how society works, right? Taxes and all that.

Admiral Huddy · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:24

Keeps people on their toes whilst giving back to society and the tax payer. Good idea IMO.

What's the alternative, sit at home and do nothing whilst descending into an oblivion?

Robinhood · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:24

How many hours of work will they force people to do?Don't want this turning into some sort of free labour for hire.The primary goal of the job centre is help people find jobs and I know for a fact they are useless at helping mainly "young" persons find jobs.

nick.lidgett · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:25

Make said:
If it's work, I'd expect minimum wage for it.

If it's social security, I wouldn't expect to work for it. I would expect the government to help me survive until I can find a job that pays a wage.

That's how society works, right? Taxes and all that.

He is talking about long term claimants, not the people "between" jobs.
How is it fair people can go years and years on the dole at the expense of "taxes and all that"?

nick.lidgett · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:26

Robinhood said:
How many hours of work will they force people to do?Don't want this turning into some sort of free labour for hire.The primary goal of the job centre is help people find jobs and I know for a fact they are useless at helping mainly "young" persons find jobs.

Mainly because "young" people think unskilled labour is below them, even though they have no skills themselves, and refuse such jobs. enter the migrant workforce.

Phemo · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:26

Locky said:
You're effectively working 30 hours a week for 45 quids worth of JSA.

Don't forget that on JSA you get your rent and council tax paid for you too. That amounts to quite a lot more than £45 a week.

deuse · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:26

So the cons can't think of nothing new so they copy what Maggie did and that never worked either what a bunch of idiots.

Thanks Cameron

Admiral Huddy · 1 Oct 2013 at 11:27

Robinhood said:
How many hours of work will they force people to do?Don't want this turning into some sort of free labour for hire.The primary goal of the job centre is help people find jobs and I know for a fact they are useless at helping mainly "young" persons find jobs.

30 hours.. afaik it's aimed at people who have been on the dole for a long time. There are those that abuse the system and take things for granted. It's these people they are aiming at. Not those that are short transition.

Whilst I don't agree with 30 hours, a few hours a week to give something back seems logical to me.