Why 7 hours?
Why not account for the fact that 'long term' unemployed have had a year or two of payments... getting occasional work placements is hardly that unfair given the the amount they've received over time
working for your dole......
- Thread starter nick.lidgett
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Why 7 hours?
Why not account for the fact that 'long term' unemployed have had a year or two of payments... getting occasional work placements is hardly that unfair given the the amount they've received over time
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It was Osbourne actually, lets not turn this into a blue bashing thread please, im eager to find the majority viewpoint about the scheme, not the party behind it.
Soldato
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Putting it that way is fine.. but for this to work they need to aim at the lazy people (people not actively looking for jobs) from the ones that are looking..
My friend (while on the dole) was put on a 4 day long "skills course".. To attend (and keep his dole money) he had to cancel (re-arrange) an interview.. The Job centre wouldn't take no for an answer..
They need to distinguish the Lazy from the un-lucky..
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well I would like to think anyone who has been on the dole over 2 months is lazy
That's not fair. Perhaps give them JSA for the first year, and then give it on a "Spend this in a supermarket"-card. If you get caught using it on booze or w/e you lose the benefits
Still, making them work will not really work. They will just slack off, or do a very bad job, and that's gonna cost even more.
I am all for it. JSA is a travesty. When I graduated from uni and couldnt find work I was on 70 a week for 12 weeks - I had to go in 6 times out of those 12 weeks, was told that dyspraxia and autism are not disabilities so I didn't get that, and then they sent me to Remploy...an agency sub contracted by JSA to deal with disabled people. One meeting with the guy there and I quit JSA because he seemed to hate people. Unfortunatly had to sign a load of paperwork that he wouldn't let me read first.
About 3 months after I registered my LTD company I recieved a letter stating I had to send copies of all my business incomings and outgoing reciepts to Remploy, by law, and I have to pay them a cut of my earnings for the rest of my life. I know if they find people work they get a cut of their earnings, but I am a company director not a shelf-stacker! I ignored the letter, nothing has come of it so far, but if they sue me I shall be straight out to Daily Mail with my story!
Yet I know certain people who have been on JSA from the age of 18, have no disabilities, no drug habits etc, and work a 40 hour week as well yet they are recieving £175 a week and never have to go in!
Edit: to back up my story
http://unemploymentmovement.com/forum/welfare-to-work/3993-remploy-work-programme#4933
About 3 months after I registered my LTD company I recieved a letter stating I had to send copies of all my business incomings and outgoing reciepts to Remploy, by law, and I have to pay them a cut of my earnings for the rest of my life. I know if they find people work they get a cut of their earnings, but I am a company director not a shelf-stacker! I ignored the letter, nothing has come of it so far, but if they sue me I shall be straight out to Daily Mail with my story!
Yet I know certain people who have been on JSA from the age of 18, have no disabilities, no drug habits etc, and work a 40 hour week as well yet they are recieving £175 a week and never have to go in!
Edit: to back up my story
http://unemploymentmovement.com/forum/welfare-to-work/3993-remploy-work-programme#4933
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nah you're effectively getting payments every week without having to do any work in return.... after a long period of time you're then asked to do *some* work in return for this... that work isn't directly tied to the JSA payment you're receiving for that particular week - its tied to the fact that you're long term unemployed and have received lots of JSA payments up until this point
a brand new claimant isn't required to start doing work in return for JSA
This. People need to lose their sense of entitlement. Its quite a sum when it all adds up so its not unfair asking them to contribute something. Devil is in the detail though as has been pointed out before.
This.
Also in Blurton (Stoke) a woman was getting over £20k for having a load of kids. I'm sorry but this is exactly what dole isn't for in my eyes. It's to help people who get made redundant or are struggling to get into work in the first place.
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Why not? people in employment have to pay upfront and "dont" get to claim it back
just being objective here.
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youre missing the point, its for long term claimers not the genuinely unemployed, looking for work, cant wait to get started again claimers.
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You mean the stars of Jezza Kyle
no they dont have to work, they are celebrity now
Yeah i know what you saying mate, seems like a catch 22 just to get to these working places, a large chunk of your benefit will go on this and it does take a while to claim back, hence leaving even less money to live on.
I am all for sorting out the dossers who sponge long term.
You'd be wrong to do so though, it's very easy to spend more than 2 months on the dole in an unemployment blackspot, like the black country, there is as has been said a deficit of jobs at the moment.
If any evidence exists which indicates it will achieved it's goals (assuming they have any goals) then I'd be interested in seeing it.
I'm asking only because I'm pretty much 99% certain it doesn't exist.
The problem with this kind of idea is that you effectively make work (the intended goal of the job-centre) not pay (the core reward of work) - by uncoupling these two core concepts you undermine the entire purpose of either.
If we want to get people who are "dossing" into work (which changes their behaviour) then simply punishing them with unpaid work is unlikely to do it, it would be far more sensible to pay them a fair wage for the work done & see how much having this new money motivates them to get a real job (so this new found wealth can continue).
Forcing already miserable & disenfranchised people into unpaid work (or paid well below minimum wage) I'm willing to bet good money is going to cause an increase in crime & poor mental & physical health - all of which cost the tax-payer a considerable amount of money to rectify.
I'm asking only because I'm pretty much 99% certain it doesn't exist.
The problem with this kind of idea is that you effectively make work (the intended goal of the job-centre) not pay (the core reward of work) - by uncoupling these two core concepts you undermine the entire purpose of either.
If we want to get people who are "dossing" into work (which changes their behaviour) then simply punishing them with unpaid work is unlikely to do it, it would be far more sensible to pay them a fair wage for the work done & see how much having this new money motivates them to get a real job (so this new found wealth can continue).
Forcing already miserable & disenfranchised people into unpaid work (or paid well below minimum wage) I'm willing to bet good money is going to cause an increase in crime & poor mental & physical health - all of which cost the tax-payer a considerable amount of money to rectify.
Soldato
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Well, i was on it for 3 1/2 months and i was not lazy atall.. Applied for atleast 80-100 jobs in that time and had 4 interviews.
I was also given very little guideence, i was given (in the whole time i was there) 1 job to apply for.. And i never heard back from the company..
I actually class myself as lucky!
I'm not sure that this will actually motivate people into employment.
IMO, the worst problem with JSA at the moment is the incompetence of the staff in the job centre.
I was signed on for a couple of months last year, and they just didn't seem to care at all, and gave terrible CV and job hunt advice.
There is also no method (that I'm aware of) of checking whether applicants are actually applying for jobs, or just claiming they have been.
If the staff were trained properly, by HR managers and recruiters, then I'm sure the average JSA applicant would stand a far better chance of employment.
I looked over one of my friends CV's recently - 4/5 years unemployed due to injury, and now lack of experience and motivation - and it was pretty shocking. If that is indicative of the standard the Job center thinks is acceptable, then its no wonder that hes had no luck so far.
IMO, the worst problem with JSA at the moment is the incompetence of the staff in the job centre.
I was signed on for a couple of months last year, and they just didn't seem to care at all, and gave terrible CV and job hunt advice.
There is also no method (that I'm aware of) of checking whether applicants are actually applying for jobs, or just claiming they have been.
If the staff were trained properly, by HR managers and recruiters, then I'm sure the average JSA applicant would stand a far better chance of employment.
I looked over one of my friends CV's recently - 4/5 years unemployed due to injury, and now lack of experience and motivation - and it was pretty shocking. If that is indicative of the standard the Job center thinks is acceptable, then its no wonder that hes had no luck so far.