Would you bench Pepe Reina?
- Thread starter mo9204
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Hes plenty good enough. I can't think of too many keepers that would be a better replacement that are actually available. Playing for a top team is very different to playing for a smaller side. People expect top class saves from the keeper when he hasn't seen the ball all game.
Reina shouldn't have come out for Aguero on Sunday but 99/100 Aguero wouldn't put that in. Admittedly, if he didn't leave his line Aguero would miss that 100/100. Its a bit of luck with keeping these days. Listen to any of the greats from yesteryear and they all say how much more the ball moves in the air these days which makes catching a ball harder and obviously parrying and punching accurately becomes harder too.
I really hope United keep with De Gea and I wouldn't think that Reina is too much of a concern for Liverpool at the moment.
Reina shouldn't have come out for Aguero on Sunday but 99/100 Aguero wouldn't put that in. Admittedly, if he didn't leave his line Aguero would miss that 100/100. Its a bit of luck with keeping these days. Listen to any of the greats from yesteryear and they all say how much more the ball moves in the air these days which makes catching a ball harder and obviously parrying and punching accurately becomes harder too.
I really hope United keep with De Gea and I wouldn't think that Reina is too much of a concern for Liverpool at the moment.
Nothing we can do about the situation now, but in the summer we will definatley need to look for a replacement, hopefully Barca will come in with some nice money. Even if they don't I think his current form is a huge worry (and form for the last 3 seasons). I've lost count the amount of times, we've been on the front foot and conceded with the oppositions 1st shot on goal, I'm pretty sure he has one of the worst shots-saves ratio's in the league.
What's more worrying is that prior to the start of the season I would have had the defence down as one area that was sorted, but its looking like we need 3 positions looking at.
Of course some posters refuse to see Pepe for what he is and blindly think he is the player of Rafa's era.
Not a huge amount of young goalkeeping talent around that is available for us in our current league postion, maybe Rui Patricio from Sporting or Stegen from Monchengladbach?
What's more worrying is that prior to the start of the season I would have had the defence down as one area that was sorted, but its looking like we need 3 positions looking at.
Of course some posters refuse to see Pepe for what he is and blindly think he is the player of Rafa's era.
Not a huge amount of young goalkeeping talent around that is available for us in our current league postion, maybe Rui Patricio from Sporting or Stegen from Monchengladbach?
I was hoping that Barca were coming in for him in the summer and we'd sign Butland (and loan him back to Brum until the summer) ready to come in, unfortunately that hasn't happened but to drop Pepe for Jones would be effectively trying to gatecrash the relegation scrap.
You trollin bro ?
How can people actually suggest dropping Reina right now with Jones as back up ? Not only that but until sunday, which by the way was more an incredible finish then that bad a mistake, he has been excellent and kept us in the game against Arsenal and finally finding some form.
Part of Pepe's game is to almost act as a sweeper at the back, I have lost count in the amount of goals he has saved by doing it and although he misjudged it on Sunday try asking the following :
Where was Skrtel ?
The idea that people are suggesting Liverpool should have signed a 19 year old in Butland to replace Reina is laughable.
Agree that it's something Reina does a lot and usually well but I'm not sure Skrtel done too much wrong. He was tracking Aguero out wide and then backed off when he saw Reina coming. The only possible criticism of Skrtel (and Carra) was that he didn't then drop back on the line but as I said in the spoiler thread, because Aguero was so wide they must have assumed there was no way he was going to go for goal and were anticipating a cut back.
Sheperding Aguero out when Reina decided to come charging out, there is absolutley no reason for him to 'act as a sweeper' when the defender has the situation under complete control. But that is half the problem with Pepe, his decision making is terrible at this moment on time, along with awful distribution with his feet (a big part of BR game plan)
YOu expect a keeper to make one or 2 clangers every season, not nearly every game.
If we had signed him he would have been 20 for the start of the new season, Pepe was only 22/23 when we bought him.
They're wrong
That's nothing short of hysterical. By his standards he had a poor season last season and he made a couple of mistakes early this season but since his hamstring injury he'd been faultless until Sunday.
I mentioned the other day, too many supporters are hysterical and exaggerate everything. A few weeks ago Gerrard was finished.
I've never understood the way some people are desperate to write-players off. If Reina were to leave it would be a very difficult job to replace him regardless of the mistake on Sunday or even his form last season. He's still one of the best keepers around and is more than capable of getting back to his best.
I guess your definition of faultless and mine differ quite significantly then, I agree that on form he is one of the best around, key words there are on form, something he hasnt been for 3 years.
Gerrard's form has co-incided with a certain brazilan's return to the team, as he gets better every game so does Steven Gerrard.
3 years? This is what I mean about hysteria and exaggeration. Last season and a couple of months at the start of this season.
And I don't doubt having Lucas back helps the side but you can't credit Lucas for Gerrard pinging the ball around like Alonso and smashing 25 yarders into the bottom corner.
edit: And quickly on Gerrard - his improvement has been down to us finding a better balance in midfield with Henderson playing tucked in on the left and Gerrard trusting his body again. Ever since he came back from his injury last season you could see that he wasn't confident in his body to stretch for balls, go into big challenges or even strike the ball the way he used to. That's been improving slowly over the last year or so.
And I don't doubt having Lucas back helps the side but you can't credit Lucas for Gerrard pinging the ball around like Alonso and smashing 25 yarders into the bottom corner.
edit: And quickly on Gerrard - his improvement has been down to us finding a better balance in midfield with Henderson playing tucked in on the left and Gerrard trusting his body again. Ever since he came back from his injury last season you could see that he wasn't confident in his body to stretch for balls, go into big challenges or even strike the ball the way he used to. That's been improving slowly over the last year or so.
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Caporegime
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FOr me there is, not being a great shot stopper and letting in a relatively easy to save goal, and there is being an excellent shot stopper, and then making a complete clanger to let a goal in. Lets say De Gea is poor at coming out to claim crosses and so he misses one, thats not a genuine error, but when someone who is good at that makes a mistake and fluffs it up, thats quite different.
Reina was an excellent keeper, what he's done for probably three years now, is make clanger after clanger, nothing he's not capable of doing correctly, but things he's getting wrong due to mistakes, not lack of ability. Thats the difference, Reina's decision making has become laughable, even when he went after Aguero, he got his positioning wrong, if he had his angles right there would have been far less chance of Aguero scoring, if he was what, a yard to his left, he would have basically blocked the potential for that shot from happening. It was a mistake to go out, then he got his angles wrong. He seems to do something daft almost every game and then he makes several complete howlers throughout a season that probably lead directly to lost points.
De Gea misses one cross, and it ends up a goal, that was coming anyway because the team was like crap but the other 476 saves he made in that game actually won them a point.
On the other hand Liverpool will be comfortable for a whole game, be ahead, be due the 3 points, not be under a huge pressure, not really look like conceding when he does something truly retarded and throws the points away. For me these are completely different situations. Reina is fast becoming a liability, but would I replace him, or Skrtel/Agger who have both been screwing up in almost every game this season with pretty woeful mistakes.... all three would be best.
Reina was an excellent keeper, what he's done for probably three years now, is make clanger after clanger, nothing he's not capable of doing correctly, but things he's getting wrong due to mistakes, not lack of ability. Thats the difference, Reina's decision making has become laughable, even when he went after Aguero, he got his positioning wrong, if he had his angles right there would have been far less chance of Aguero scoring, if he was what, a yard to his left, he would have basically blocked the potential for that shot from happening. It was a mistake to go out, then he got his angles wrong. He seems to do something daft almost every game and then he makes several complete howlers throughout a season that probably lead directly to lost points.
De Gea misses one cross, and it ends up a goal, that was coming anyway because the team was like crap but the other 476 saves he made in that game actually won them a point.
On the other hand Liverpool will be comfortable for a whole game, be ahead, be due the 3 points, not be under a huge pressure, not really look like conceding when he does something truly retarded and throws the points away. For me these are completely different situations. Reina is fast becoming a liability, but would I replace him, or Skrtel/Agger who have both been screwing up in almost every game this season with pretty woeful mistakes.... all three would be best.
Henderson isnt Brazilian ?
If you mean Lucas then i'd disagree. Its Henderson essentially being Gerrards legs that is freeing Gerrard up.
Butland will be 20 you are correct however you are comparing a 20 year old Jack Butland plying his trade for Birmingham with a 23 year old Pepe Reina who had played over 100 games for Villareal and 30 for Barcelona ....
You really can't compare the two.
Stick Allen in place of Lucas and you would see a totally different Gerrard, although it could be argued that it takes both Lucas and Hendersen to allow Stevie the freedom to do what he wants
I think Butland is an outstanding talent and will be Englands number one in the next few years replacing Hart (massively overrated).
Caporegime
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Personally I would question Gerrards recent "good" form, goal and assist against City, City were crap, and he got an assist against City in the second game of the season.
His recent form includes in the last 12 games in cup and league, Liverpool have won 6, Gerrard has scored or assisted against, City, Norwich, Sunderland, QPR, Stoke, Fulham, Villa, West Ham. On current form that is what, apart from City, the worst teams in the league at the moment? Of those he was awful and you lost to Stoke(ranked 20th for form since the Liverpool win I believe) and Villa(drawn 3 lost 5 since the Liverpool win), beat Norwich, same record as Villa in the last 8, horrendous away from home, Fulham(their away form is obvious), West ham(for the past 3 months ranked in the bottom 5 teams in the league), etc, etc.
In other words, you've played a bunch of crap teams, lost some of them, and he's gotten a few more goals and assists against worse teams which is simply what happens in football. Fulham were diabolical, Norwich were even ruddy worse, QPR were awful, Stoke and VILLA outplayed you and Gerrard was poor in both despite a couple of goals.
Personally I think Gerrard was poor against Arsenal and good against City. We've seen a different Gerrard recently because most of those teams are freaking awful, nothing more, nothing less.
His recent form includes in the last 12 games in cup and league, Liverpool have won 6, Gerrard has scored or assisted against, City, Norwich, Sunderland, QPR, Stoke, Fulham, Villa, West Ham. On current form that is what, apart from City, the worst teams in the league at the moment? Of those he was awful and you lost to Stoke(ranked 20th for form since the Liverpool win I believe) and Villa(drawn 3 lost 5 since the Liverpool win), beat Norwich, same record as Villa in the last 8, horrendous away from home, Fulham(their away form is obvious), West ham(for the past 3 months ranked in the bottom 5 teams in the league), etc, etc.
In other words, you've played a bunch of crap teams, lost some of them, and he's gotten a few more goals and assists against worse teams which is simply what happens in football. Fulham were diabolical, Norwich were even ruddy worse, QPR were awful, Stoke and VILLA outplayed you and Gerrard was poor in both despite a couple of goals.
Personally I think Gerrard was poor against Arsenal and good against City. We've seen a different Gerrard recently because most of those teams are freaking awful, nothing more, nothing less.
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Remember guys, goals and assists against lesser teams DON'T actually count!