To me the skill of a player is all encompassing, as the bloke earlier said. He hit his skill limit with a pad at around level 20, and had to boost himself artificially with an XIM. According to the game he's now more skilled by 30 levels, up to the level of players that really try hard to get where they are. Your mentality is that he's now more skilled because he's not limited by the pad, my mentality is that he's no more skilled, but he's having to artificially change the rules that everyone else agrees on.
The legality according to MS is moot imo, plenty of games have exploits that some people decide not to use, and other will use to the full extent. Just because MS have yet to do anything about it, does not mean it isn't a
generally bad thing imo.
I understand the requirement of the disabled or amputees to want to play, and I can sympathise with that to an extent, my issue is with the general player that is using it to to gain an artificial advantage over how they would play with a pad.
I don't expect either side to change view, but I don't think it's a cut and clear case of no advantage regardless of the numbers and stats when I see how these devices are being used.
I can agree with you to an extent on this. Some of the people buying XIMs are undoubtedly doing it under the impression that it will make them a better player and not simply allow them to more enjoy the game by replacing a control scheme that has proven a nuisance to themselves. I don't feel such a mentality is healthy for themselves or the communities they will be playing in (granted that is tempered somewhat by my experiences of how the average LIVE subscriber behaves), but it doesn't bother me past my understanding that any increase in ability they see will be due to the slightly more moderate learning curve associated with physically using a mouse--and only if they can manage such a device in the first place. It seems an odd concept, but I can not ignore the possibility that there are people who could not, as an end result, use a mouse better than the joystick, perhaps even if it exhibited the natural, driver-supported movement that we see in PC games. Trying to learn how to use a mouse through the XIM is surely possible, though likely much more difficult without the invaluable starting point of a large amount of previous experience with the device.
I still feel this is a more healthy than destructive change for the consumer, with the benefits of a more accessible platform outweighing any possible rifts over balance in online multiplayer. Know that these kinds of adapters for the 360 have been available to players since the end of 2006 and there have been six different releases between then and now that do not include any of the XIMs. Yet despite this, there seems to be no identifiable category that players using these adapters fall in to within the various scoreboards of games played over LIVE. This is because their abilities in-game are only as dependent on how well they can use the mouse as would be their ability to use a joystick were they using the standard gamepad. Those that use a mouse well are still very much subject to defeat if they do not employ more than simply a lack of struggling to use the controller, just as those who can use a gamepad well would have to play intelligently in order to be successful themselves.
Just because Microsoft hasn't done anything yet, doesn't mean they won't.
The XIM3 is clearly the big product launch that this company is working on and they hope to sell big numbers over it's past products which have obviously been quite niche. Let's not kid ourselves here, Microsoft has whatever legal power it needs at it's disposal, this XIM company I'd wager doesn't.
Plenty of products have been banned in the past that circumvent or do something a console isn't supposed to do. This doesn't necessarily always mean that the company has to pack up and stop making them, but it can mean it becomes illegal for a retailer to sell them. Thus it becomes a case of it effectively still killing the company with the only sales being secondhand market which had already been shipped.
We all already know that obviously one reason Microsoft may seek to take legal action is because it changes the level playing field that they have set out.
However, there is another much more key reason that they are likely to take more of an issue with, that is that it lets you use any other controller. This means less revenue directed at Microsoft for the sales of their peripherals. On a further note to this, there are a number of peripheral manufacturers who have a paid license granting them to manufacturer and sell their products for the console. An unlicensed product like the XIM means it also effectively takes revenue away from these licensees because people won't buy their Steering Wheel or Flight Stick or what have you because they can use anyone that currently exists. If Microsoft wanted keyboard and mouse support, we all know that they could implement it and sell the products themselves, the fact that they haven't and how old the Xbox 360 now is just further demonstrates that they have no interest, nor would they grant somebody a license for one.
So in summary, Microsoft effectively has a duty to these license holders to take action on it. Perhaps it's not happened yet because XIM had started small, however it's clearly growing and they plan to make the XIM3 big.
I'll eat my hat if Microsoft don't step in at some point.
Hence my reasoning on why the XIMs have been designed to avoid detection by the console. Sort of a "just in case" should Microsoft decide they don't feel like allowing an opening up of controller options. It might be underhanded, but I wouldn't trust a large company of its field like Microsoft to be anything more in its dealings. Specifically, I can recall their blocking of Datel's memory cards. Sure, it was their legal right to do so, but in the end all that happened was everyone was once again required to pay, what, $40 for 512MB of storage? Good for Microsoft, bad for everyone else. The only reason they probably haven't moved against people using third-party HDDs is because they could never mop up the ones who have the same model HDD used in Microsoft's own drive, albeit for $150 less than it would cost to buy it encased in plastic and sporting the Xbox 360 logo.
However, you did overlook each XIM's requirement of using a wired controller in order to interface with the console. While they might lose whatever difference is present between wired and wireless models, each XIM attached to a 360 is going to require its own licensed controller through which any XIM-enabled inputs are going to be forced to work. People aren't using an unlicensed flightstick to play the game over a licensed model. They are using an unlicensed flightstick to operate a licensed gamepad which is playing the game. Any lost revenue argument is going to need a lot more weight than that to have a fair chance at prevailing. It's like arguing against someone using an aftermarket modification that allows them to easily change the form of their controller in to that of another input type.
To be honest, I would be surprised if Microsoft did anything. There might be some slight retaliation from individual developers who could bog down their games with overly low sensitivities and high amounts of acceleration, essentially making the game handle terribly for everyone, mouse users more so than gamepad users. Bungie could probably pull something like that off, considering how much they interfere with how players behave in their games through the use of their multiple ban and suspension types (and yet many of their customers just seem to bend over and enjoy such treatment), but most devs won't bother or even care to realize people play these games with inputs emulating the gamepad instead of the gamepad itself.
To be fair, we can't conclude a great deal from that 1 vs 1- individual skill varies hugely with both control methods. Add lag and there are even more variables.
If XIM allows someone to use a mouse with the precision and accuracy of a PC shooter, a similarly skilled pad user will struggle to compete, auto aim or not. Much comes down to the game in question - CoD is a spray and pray, who's sees who first wins, nub-em-up
, and the general game mechanics (iron sights, slow movement etc) do much to level the playing field regardless of controller. Take something like Quake 3, however, the the gap would widen tremendously. There is no way a pad user could twitch aim with pinpoint accuracy or move with the rquired precision and speed. Unlike most ardent PC fans I don't think this makes pads a worse device for shooters, but it's certainly harder to use, slower, less precise, and can't compete with a mouse on a level playing field. Auto aim alone has got me killed on numerous occasions.
It is impossible for a game with turn speeds not greater than that capable with a mouse to allow the PC ability you mention. The Call of Duty series on consoles comes closer than most, but the player can still easily hit the speed cap when turning with a mouse. Cursor acceleration still poses as much a problem for the mouse-emulating-joystick approach through the XIM3 as it did the XIM2, but the newer Smart profiles should help to lessen the sluggish feel it adds to the mouse. If the XIM2 is best described as "close to PC control, but not perfect", then the XIM3 would be better labeled as perfect in its similarity to PC control. The limits haven't changed, only how well the XIM works within them. We'll never see real mouse behavior on the console until Microsoft says so.
More to the reason I quoted you: The better Q3A players are simply unnatural, and I mean that respectfully. Videos like Get Quaked 3 come close to depressing me with the sheer ability displayed. As much as I wish the XIMs could bring the capability of true driver-enabled mouse support to consoles, it doesn't. Of course, if it did that, it would carry the risk of unbalancing gameplay. No longer would it be a comparison of a joystick versus a mouse emulating the joystick, but of joystick versus an actual mouse, unhindered by the limits of the other. Were that the case, I'd probably yield to the opinion of it being unfair to gamepad users.
is it not though that his extra 'skill' is due to an illegal control method, giving him that advantage?
Never likely to be illegal and technically not deemed unauthorized by Microsoft or LIVE's user agreements, though the latter is open to change at Microsoft's discretion.
^ Yeah again something that keeps getting avoided.
The XIM 3 also appears to support macros, so you can for example map one button to do a load of things at the sametime. Such gamepads that have already been designed to do such things aren't granted licences.
I've spotted more than once where an XIM user has said that it's not cheating unless you are using macros. So again, it raises the point that the XIM 3 will allow you to essentially cheat. Are you honestly telling me that an XIM user isn't going to use the option to do a macro?
I also don't see what playing an XIM user is going to prove?
Surely the best way would be for them to play each other using a combination of all methods of control, thus you can then truly see whether it's down to skill or the control method.
The XIM can also be used to play other games, so saying that it's only going to be used in Halo and COD is ridiculous, people play other games too you know.
Let's just say for example, there are people who play Halo Wars or Command and Conquer... an XIM user would clearly have a huge advantage over a pad player in such a game. Sure it might not be the most popular game on Live, but people still play it and it's still just as much cheating.
OBsIV has actually done a decent job at opposing the use of macros. No XIM software created by him supports button scripts, and the effect of the software is more a representation of possible physical modification to the controller. He has himself stated macros to be against the intention he had when creating the XIM, so even if he doesn't condemn their use, it's certain he doesn't condone it. That said, I don't see how mapping two functions to one button is beneficial in any game, save maybe Armored Core (left arm and right arm weapons were assigned to separate buttons, I believe) and then all you accomplish is removing some of the flexibility otherwise offered by the game having those options. You could no longer fire a medium range weapon without firing a short range weapon with that button and your AC configurations would be restricted by that requirement. Now mapping one button to multiple keys I can see as beneficial were a finger of mine more easily able to alternate between several keys instead of hitting a single one. I can't do that, but someone else probably can. As to whether it offers an advantage, I wouldn't expect it to make any practical difference.
I suppose that technically it is possible to still run macros through the XIM3, but one would have to run a XIM or XIM2 through the XIM3 and that would more or less destroy the benefits (portability, Smart profiles) of using the XIM3 in the first place. Granted the method for using hardware not supported by the XIM3 might parallel that setup, but then the XIM3 would not be necessary.
XIM users playing each other wouldn't be immune to levels of ability with whatever controls they used. I would probably get rolled by toys or Ub3r regardless of whether I was using a mouse or emulating one with my TrackIR through the XIM. Outside of the games or the controls are factors which separate all of us in ability, genetic or otherwise.
And speaking from experience, Halo Wars is quite terrible to play when using a mouse through the XIM. It gave me an impression of what I might experience were I to map a mouse to the arrow keys in a PC RTS. That said, I am baffled by the developer not insisting on the use of a mouse, as if it weren't bad enough that Microsoft issued a cease and desist to the creators of Halogen because somehow a PC Halo mod for C&C Generals might cut in to the sales of a console-only RTS. Confusing business, that.
I'd have no problem with a USB Hub which allows the G25 or G27 to be supported for example; As I don't see how you can consider them to be 'cheats'. You're just using a wheel for racing, or a joystick for flight sims.
However, the Mice and Keyboard is not a natural controller, in terms of you wouldn't fire a gun in a Rifle Range, using a Keyboard and a Mouse.
The games on the xbox and ps3 are designed to played using the joystick. The whole idea of consoles is that they can be played socially, on a sofa, in your living room and not locked away into a corner with a big computer desk.
The way I see it is, if you want to use a keyboard and mouse, go play a PC game.
I fail to see how a mouse is any less natural when compared to firing a rifle than is a joystick. One would think that using the entire arm to aim instead of a single thumb would better replicate the motion necessary when using a rifle. That said, I do like the trigger design on the standard 360 controller. It's the face buttons, joysticks, and that damnable directional pad that disagree with me.
