YAMAHA YHT1810 vs PIONEER HTP072

For all in ones, you cannot beat either really. Bear this in mind though, neither AV receiver has an output for an active Subwoofer should you decide to upgrade the speaker package in the future. :)
 
The previous two posts both make excellent points. Whether the passive sub makes a difference to you really depends on where you see yourself with home cinema.

If this is your end game and you've no plans to upgrade and build a better cinema system then it not really important other than the small performance hit because the amp is powering the sub as well as the main speakers. On the other hand, if this is the first step on the road to bigger and better things then you need to think about the cost of upgrading - that's both in the cost of new gear and what your older stuff might fetch. It's slightly disheartening to think about selling something before you've even bought it, but it should be a consideration to help you way up the pros and cons.

A passive sub works like all the other speakers. It's a speaker in a box. The power to drive that comes from the amp. Bass takes a lot more power than the small satellite speakers. Passives are a method for manufacturers to keep costs down when making entry level gear. An active sub is more expensive to produce because it has its own built-in amplifier. The benefit is in sonics; first because it lightens the load on the main amp by not having to drive the power hungry bass, and second because the sub amp can be better matched to the needs of the speaker it is driving. The bass is stronger as a result.

If you plan to upgrade then selling speakers that include a passive sub on their own is difficult. Who is going to buy them?: They're not an upgrade for anyone. The only people that can buy them are those with an equivalent budget amp that has speaker sockets for a passive sub. If you sell the amp first then you've go the problem of how to power your passive sub. It's chicken and egg. None of this matters if you don't plan to upgrade, but if you do then you need to sell all as a complete system.

On the positive side, the fact that the Yamaha doesn't directly support HD audio decoding directly isn't so much of an issue as it first appears. Any decent Blu-ray player can be set to output Dolby True-HD and DTS Master Audio as a multichannel PCM signal. This means it's the player doing the decoding rather than the amp. To all intents and purposes the resulting sound is identical. The only difference is that you don't get the sexy DolbyHD or DTS-MA logo light up on the amp. The situation might be different if you're using media streamers with ripped BD content.

Where the lack of HD audio might be an issue is at resale time. The typical newbie buyer won't be as familiar with audio formats, so they're likely to skip something without direct HD audio support without realising it's not a big deal.


Is there something better???


The Pioneer and Yamaha are £249 and £269 respectively. Is there something better for the same money..... In short: No. But if you're prepared to tip in just a little extra over your original £300 budget then you can get something much better. Both the Pioneer VSX323 and Yamaha RVX375 are available at £149, though you'd have to join the VIP club to get the Pioneer at that price. Add the Tannoy SFX5.1 kit £169/£149 on VIP and then chuck in a bit of cash for cables and you're in business. No issues with HD audio. No issues with passive subs.
 
Pioneer 329 plus separate speaker pack looks slightly better value

For all in ones, you cannot beat either really. Bear this in mind though, neither AV receiver has an output for an active Subwoofer should you decide to upgrade the speaker package in the future. :)

Thanks Guys

The previous two posts both make excellent points. Whether the passive sub makes a difference to you really depends on where you see yourself with home cinema.

If this is your end game and you've no plans to upgrade and build a better cinema system then it not really important other than the small performance hit because the amp is powering the sub as well as the main speakers. On the other hand, if this is the first step on the road to bigger and better things then you need to think about the cost of upgrading - that's both in the cost of new gear and what your older stuff might fetch. It's slightly disheartening to think about selling something before you've even bought it, but it should be a consideration to help you way up the pros and cons.

A passive sub works like all the other speakers. It's a speaker in a box. The power to drive that comes from the amp. Bass takes a lot more power than the small satellite speakers. Passives are a method for manufacturers to keep costs down when making entry level gear. An active sub is more expensive to produce because it has its own built-in amplifier. The benefit is in sonics; first because it lightens the load on the main amp by not having to drive the power hungry bass, and second because the sub amp can be better matched to the needs of the speaker it is driving. The bass is stronger as a result.

If you plan to upgrade then selling speakers that include a passive sub on their own is difficult. Who is going to buy them?: They're not an upgrade for anyone. The only people that can buy them are those with an equivalent budget amp that has speaker sockets for a passive sub. If you sell the amp first then you've go the problem of how to power your passive sub. It's chicken and egg. None of this matters if you don't plan to upgrade, but if you do then you need to sell all as a complete system.

On the positive side, the fact that the Yamaha doesn't directly support HD audio decoding directly isn't so much of an issue as it first appears. Any decent Blu-ray player can be set to output Dolby True-HD and DTS Master Audio as a multichannel PCM signal. This means it's the player doing the decoding rather than the amp. To all intents and purposes the resulting sound is identical. The only difference is that you don't get the sexy DolbyHD or DTS-MA logo light up on the amp. The situation might be different if you're using media streamers with ripped BD content.

Where the lack of HD audio might be an issue is at resale time. The typical newbie buyer won't be as familiar with audio formats, so they're likely to skip something without direct HD audio support without realising it's not a big deal.


Is there something better???


The Pioneer and Yamaha are £249 and £269 respectively. Is there something better for the same money..... In short: No. But if you're prepared to tip in just a little extra over your original £300 budget then you can get something much better. Both the Pioneer VSX323 and Yamaha RVX375 are available at £149, though you'd have to join the VIP club to get the Pioneer at that price. Add the Tannoy SFX5.1 kit £169/£149 on VIP and then chuck in a bit of cash for cables and you're in business. No issues with HD audio. No issues with passive subs.

Thanks for taking time to explain.. I never used a active sub before, I upgrading over a standard all-in-one 5.1 Samsung. :eek:

I can come up a little more, what we talking £400?
This system will be used with Sky HD box, PS4 and my PC that has sound card that can send DTS or Dolby by Optical..

I was thinking plugging in the sky and ps4 by HDMI ps4 will use the HD audio in games. Sky will be standard Dolby
And then my PC for movie watching and music.

I see you say Pioneer VSX323, I can only see VSX329
http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/pioneer/vsx329/pion-vsx329-blk

Thanks again, this my first time into buying a AV Receiver, so I would like to make sure I have everything covered.
 
The bottom end of the amp market is a bit of a bun fight. Reasons to spend extra tend to be...
  • more HDMI inputs
  • 7.1 (overrated IMO)
  • Audio Return Channel - sound from the TV's tuner via the same HDMI cable - only applicable if the TV has ARC and you watch a lot of Freeview*
  • HDMI pass-through - sound routed from Sky box to TV when amp is in standby - useful IMO
  • Network/internet radio streaming - I like internet radio. Less enamoured of the GUIs for streaming local content though. Outboard players do it better
  • Bluetooth audio from phones - Well I suppose if you really musty have horribly compressed audio from your mobile :rolleyes:
  • App control - finding an excuse to show off with your mobile or iPad

*also works for Freesat. Useful if your TV has ARC but no optical out for sound


You'll need to enquire which amps have the extra features.

Oh, and yes, it was a typo. Should have been VSX329
 
Thanks all the above dont matter to me.. 4 HDMI-in is more than enough.. Network etc not something I would ever use.

I would order now if I can get my head around this VIP... Looks like I need to go into shop.

I got an email saying Welcome... Thank you for becoming a Richer Sounds VIP!
 
The Yamaha has an active sub, so that would be the one I'd go for.

Or the VSX329/RVX375 and seperate speaker package.
 
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On RS site it says it has and just looked up some images and it has a single coaxial SW output.
Its the replacement for the YHT 199, which also had an active SW.
Anyway buying the seperates is cheaper anyway!
 
Update

I went and bought the Pioneer VSX329 with the Tannoy SFX 5.1

I couldn't be any happier the difference over my all-in-one is unreal..

Question though! See on here one guy talked about buying extra speaker wire, and also on RS site they say the same thing..

Would someone like myself really notice a difference changing from the stock wire?
 
The main thing with speaker wire is getting power through to the speakers, so it's about wasting as little as possible in the wire as losses from resistance. The thinner the wire then the greater the resistance. Length also increases resistance.

If the speakers were say 30cm from the receiver then you could use very thin cable and it would make very little difference at all; nearly all the power would get through. But in general the distances are never so short, so the thickness of the cable starts to become important.

There's one other controllable factor that is important. It's what the cable is made of. This always used to be 100% copper. But with the advent of Ebay and online sales, and also supplies from China where corner cutting is all too common, we are seeing a lot of cables that look like copper but are in fact cheaper core materials such as aluminium and steel which has then been anodised with a very thin coating of copper. They look like copper but don't perform the same. Beware and look out for CCA and CCS in the descriptions. This stands for either Copper Coated Aluminium or Copper Coated Steel. If a cable looks too cheap to be true then give it a wide berth.

There's some science involved which makes it easier to predict the losses involved in copper cables.

The bell wire that's typically supplied with those all-in-ones from Currys is 22 gauge or even thinner. Putting 100W through 10m of that results in a loss of about 22W of that power. So that's almost 1/4 of the power lost because of thin wire. Wire Gauge is an American method of measuring thickness. In the UK we're more used to seeing CSA (Cross Sectional Area) and it's expressed in mm2. There are two main sizes for speaker wire: 1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2 Putting the same 100W through 10m of 1.5mm2 wire results in a loss of just 5 Watts. That's a big difference just for some thicker cable.

Van Damme Blue 1.5 is decent, 100% copper, and not expensive compared to cables from RS. Another advantage is that the cable spec is readily available. A lot of the cables sold retail don't have a clear indication of CSA.

So, what will you hear?

Thicker cables have better damping properties so the midrange/bass from the satellites might sound a tad clearer. The bigger advantage comes with efficiency. The amp won't need to work as hard to drive the speakers, and that means lower levels of distortion from the amp. It also means there's more power reserve left so there's a chance of improved dynamics.
 
Sweet thank you so much for detailed reply.. So if I was to buy from RS what speaker wire would you personally recommend? Or if not from RS should I buy from Amazon?
 
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TBH, because of the lack of proper specs I can't recommend any of the RS cables under £3/m. Either go with Van Damme Blue from Amazon, or Fisual S-Flex White 2x1.5mm which is an oxygen free cable for just £1.50 per metre.
 
TBH, because of the lack of proper specs I can't recommend any of the RS cables under £3/m. Either go with Van Damme Blue from Amazon, or Fisual S-Flex White 2x1.5mm which is an oxygen free cable for just £1.50 per metre.

Thanks I'll go with the van Damme the name just rocks class haaa
 
Sorry with all the questions, for the sub I brought some 3m white and red cable from maplin, was in a rush just to get it all up and running..

You think I should also replace this cable with something better?
 
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