yet another messi thread

NokkonWud · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:04

Rezident said:
Yeah it definitely looks like Fergie had a word with him but he still hasn't cut it out. Makes me wonder if Fergie is implicitly condoning it, if it gets a result.

That's ridiculous, especially considering the standard of play for other sides in the Premiership.

AS I have said, I could name divers as bad, or worse in almost every premiership side, Ronaldo is merely used as a scapegoat for divers and it's a shame.

NokkonWud · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:05

Linoge said:
What are you basing this assumption on? And please don't say a video on youtube because if it is, discussion is over. I could make a 3 minute video dedicated to John O'Shea and make him look like a world class player but it doesn't make it so.

Exactly. I also agree, this thread should be closed. It's WAY off topic now and it's just "fans" jumping on Ronaldo now.

sandy10 · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:15

Everyone knows of my "love"(!) for Man Utd, but I do have to say that Ronaldo is, clearly in my opinion, the best young player in the world at the moment.

Messi is an exceptional talent, but having seen the majority of Barcelona's games on TV this past season, and despite some incredible runs, and goals he doesn't impact on the game anywhere near as much as Ronaldo.

In terms of "wonderkids", there is a lad at Atletico Madrid called Sergio Aguero who looks very impressive each time I've seen him - he cost them £18m as a 17 year old last year, and looks a terrific prospect - perhaps we will all see more of him now Torres has left.

sandy10 · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzHI0rA6Bto

Have a pat at that

NokkonWud · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:24

Yeah, he's one hell of a talent and apparently the reason they were so 'willing' to let Torres leave.
I've only ever heard stories as I missed the Athletico games on Sky (shame it's only ever Real Madrid vs... or Barcelona vs... I'd like to see more variation tbh.

But yes, he's a hell of a player. As is Anderson of Man Utd from what I've watched of him in matches (not just on YouTube

), hopefully he can improve in the same way Ronaldo has.

cheets64 · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:24

sandy10 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzHI0rA6Bto

Have a pat at that

Good attacking or bad defending, I can never make up my mind.

sandy10 · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:27

from a personal perspective, he looks more "natural" than Messi.

I also hope we get to see a whole lot more of him this coming season.

weringo · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:29

cheets64 said:
Good attacking or bad defending, I can never make up my mind.

Generally bad defending where the Argentinian league is concerned, I would be surprised if Aguero made a "massive" impact. Looks a decent player though.

cheets64 · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:30

Yeah, too many people jump on foreign players, Adu he was hyped up turned out was just playing against some guys who failed at being NFL players.

sandy10 · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:34

weringo said:
Generally bad defending where the Argentinian league is concerned, I would be surprised if Aguero made a "massive" impact. Looks a decent player though.

With respect, if people perceived the Argentinian league to be generally that bad, we surely wouldn't of seen the likes of Maradona, Riquelme, Saviola, Ortega et al all earn moves to the biggest clubs in the world.

I think if he played more regularly for Barcelona, or Real this past season, as opposed to a smaller club, people would have seen more of him to appreciate his vast talent.

weringo · 17 Jul 2007 at 00:51

sandy10 said:
With respect, if people perceived the Argentinian league to be generally that bad, we surely wouldn't of seen the likes of Maradona, Riquelme, Saviola, Ortega et al all earn moves to the biggest clubs in the world.

I think if he played more regularly for Barcelona, or Real this past season, as opposed to a smaller club, people would have seen more of him to appreciate his vast talent.

Admittedly I'm not exactly a regular viewer of the Argentine league, I usually see most of it on late night channel 5 or eurosport or whatever. Some of the defending is shambles though, completely uncoordinated and all over the place, Titus Bramble would look like the worlds greatest defender playing over there compared to what I've seen. I don't doubt they produce some quality from there, but most of that quality heads over to Europe sharpish.

JAzz · 17 Jul 2007 at 01:40

NokkonWud said:
Punching a ball in the back of the net a'la Maradonna will get you labelled that. For all the greatness Maradonna had he is known by millions around the world for being a cheat. Messi is following the very same path, just with less ability.

I don't doubt he will be in Spain in a couple of seasons. He doesn't owe us anything as it is. Fans of other football teams say this to rile us clearly, but it doesn't bother us .

Actually, up until the 05/06 season RVN did track back all the time and help, it's when he became 'lazy' that we sold him. As for Ronaldo, he's our quickest break, so we leave him forwards and clear our positions towards him as he's a good target man, however, Ronaldo does also help cover the overlap at RB when required.

Liverpool won because they played better, they got through on credit, not because the other team played poorly. Credit where it's due.

Yes punching the ball in is wrong but any other player in the same situation would have done the same if they could get away with it. And I did give Liverpool credit, read my post again.

BaZ87 said:
So because others don't track back that makes it ok then?

Also when your playing a 4-3-3 then you need the 2 wide attackers (wingers) to get back otherwise you get over-run in when defending, especially when sides have got attacking fullbacks.

Rubbish, they left players up-field expecting us to sit back and defend and we ended up controlling the midfield and took the game to them, with Finnan causing them lots of problems because of Ronaldinho not getting back and helping the fullback.

Who are you to judge whether it is ok or not? The manager is the one who judges for teams like Barca, Man utd and Arsenal their managers don't want their strikers players back defending. For liverpool and Chelsea it is a different matter as those two play much more defensive systems. When the Chelsea's and Liverpool's of this world play 4-3-3 it might turn into a 4-5-1 when defending but Barca's over the last few years certainly doesn't and I don't think they have any intentions of changing it either after the success it has bought them.

How many times have you actually seen Barca play? That is the way they play, they leave their front three upfront and control the game with possession, their passing needs to be quick and the players need to always be on the move. They didn't do that well enough against Liverpool and lost and deservedly so. They did though against Chelsea last season and Milan, got through those matches pretty comfortably. Messi and Ronaldinho didn't do much defending in those matches and usually don't ever track back

BaZ87 · 17 Jul 2007 at 02:08

Jazz said:
Who are you to judge whether it is ok or not? The manager is the one who judges for teams like Barca, Man utd and Arsenal their managers don't want their strikers players back defending. For liverpool and Chelsea it is a different matter as those two play much more defensive systems. When the Chelsea's and Liverpool's of this world play 4-3-3 it might turn into a 4-5-1 when defending but Barca's over the last few years certainly doesn't and I don't think they have any intentions of changing it either after the success it has bought them.

How many times have you actually seen Barca play? That is the way they play, they leave their front three upfront and control the game with possession, their passing needs to be quick and the players need to always be on the move. They didn't do that well enough against Liverpool and lost and deservedly so. They did though against Chelsea last season and Milan, got through those matches pretty comfortably. Messi and Ronaldinho didn't do much defending in those matches and usually don't ever track back

Who am i to judge? Im Baz and im free to give my opinion on what i like

I gave my opinion that it cost them the game vs Liverpool, they got over-run in midfield and Finnan had a field-day down are right hand side.

I also stand by my opinion that Rijkaard should be sacked if he tells Messi, Ronaldinho and Eto'o to stand on the half-way line and wait for the ball because against the top european sides they will get punished more often than not.

I do watch them play most weeks and know that they stand on the half-way line, whether thats due to orders or because they are lazy i don't know and neither do you.

As for Utd and Arsenal not wanting there attacking players back defending, firstly they usually play a form of 4-4-2 so don't have 3 players out of the game and in actual fact when Utd play a 4-3-3/4-5-1, Rooney, Giggs and even Ronaldo do track back (also Henry reguarly tracked back when at Arsenal).

nikebee · 17 Jul 2007 at 02:28

Oh my goodness, I can't believe you said that. Let me guess, you:

* are a Man Yoo fan
* are smoking a lot of crack these days
* have a guide dog named Christiano

Wonderfully talented player, but he dives in practically every match. Watch the video. Why did you not want to watch past the first clip?

I've already posted my thoughts on the Ronaldo diving bit, but I'll say it again... been a Utd fan all my life - Ronaldo doesn't dive anywhere near as much as he used to and cleaned up his act a heck of a lot last season. :rolleyes:

I'll go back to what I said a few pages ago, it's simply stuck with him because he got a reputation of being a diver... and again, as I've already said... he could go an entire season with diving, then dive in the final game of the season, in the final minute of the game... and you'd get 'Cheat! Classic Ronaldo! Cheat! Cheat! Cheat!'

[ASSE]Hinchy said:
Because the first clip was a stone wall penalty.

I'm not a Man United fan and I know Ronaldo cleaned up his act this season. I think Fergie gave him a boot up the backside for it and he learnt to take the hits and not go down at every chance. He's still by no means an angel but if you're suggesting he hasn't improved his ways then you're wrong.

Thank you! Somebody that can finally comprehend what most of us have been saying since Ronaldo's name first got mentioned!

NokkonWud · 17 Jul 2007 at 02:47

Jazz said:
Yes punching the ball in is wrong but any other player in the same situation would have done the same if they could get away with it. And I did give Liverpool credit, read my post again.

See, I completely disagree, not every player would. Infact, I dare say the vast majority wouldn't.
That's what makes Messi a cheat.