And I can comment on how stupid I find their "different cultural norms" if I wish. Sure homosexuality may be illegal under Islamic law and hanging may be a sound punishment for it under Islamic law. In that case I find Islamic law to be pretty barbaric too.
you need to pick a side
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And I can comment on how stupid I find their "different cultural norms" if I wish. Sure homosexuality may be illegal under Islamic law and hanging may be a sound punishment for it under Islamic law. In that case I find Islamic law to be pretty barbaric too.
but why? :/
Yes, you are right, there are some decent americans. Its just my views are tanted by the fact ive never met an american person ive liked...
They all seem to suffer what I call the 'american mentality'...
wtf tbh :/
I don't think I'd mind living in Iran, as long as the US doesn't invade.
Obviously I'd rather live here, but I think I'd much rather live in Iran than a lot of places in Africa and such.
I'd be interested to know how many people in this thread have actually been to Iran?
I haven't.
Obviously I'd rather live here, but I think I'd much rather live in Iran than a lot of places in Africa and such.
I'd be interested to know how many people in this thread have actually been to Iran?
I haven't.
OK, lets put some perspective on this. I presume your talking about Mehdi Kazemi - its been all over the papers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/a-life-or-death-decision-792058.htmlThe Independent said:
So he is 19 now, came to the UK in 2004. That makes him 14/15 when he left Iran. And he had a gay lover?
Are you saying its insane to have the death penalty for a paedophile?
NB - I don't know the full facts of this case, but am trying to put a different perspective other than that given by our media.
Personally I don't believe in capital punishment, but I respect that some countries do have such punishments, and I respect their rights to do so.
Caporegime
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this is EXACTLY what happened in this country, less than a hundred years ago.
We went through a VERY rapid change in our culture through 2 world wars and the industrial revolution. Every country developes at a different rate due to different circumstances. At some point a hundred years ago there was probably another country that had outlawed drowning witches and thought our country was barbaric.
People our just so completely unable to grasp how our country was exactly the same as the "3rd world" countries such a very very very short time ago.
we took millions of years to evolve to where we are, we came up with religion several thousand years ago. We've murdered countless numbers of people that are "different" in any way or nature based on what a book told us until a sudden state of cultural fast forwarding you could say, basically has stopped us following the religious books and allowing ourselves to be blinded into atrocities because a book says its ok.
THe complete lack of understanding of other cultures having not jumping forward what is really quite unnaturally fast is just as bad as the people who killed witches i think less than 100 years ago. We ignore our history and pass judgement on people who are different than us. truly the only difference is the electronic age and telecommunications giving us a different perspective.
100 years ago we found anything different and said it was awful locally, now we do it on a planetwide scale, we say most people locally are fine but those guys over there, lets hate on them because we can.
Frankly our "fast forwarding" has only led to a complete lack of learning to teach/parent our kids any kind of morality. We lost religion and didn't replace it with commen sense and actual parenting, so we now have kids roaming the streets literally killing each other for NO reason at all.
Had we not been forced to progress so fast maybe, just maybe we would have found a middle ground.
If you can't see how badly and how fast this country is deteriorating you're completely blind. Think, padded lamposts, chavs, crime on a massive rise, police numbers reducing, tax increasing, a completely unsustainable number of public jobs, increasing debt, almost certain failure of pension schemes in the fairly near future, NHS bursting at the seams and not to far off simply bursting.
We are in a very real situation where in 10-20 years we won't have national healthcare, we'll barely have a police force or many firemen, economy all but gone and more and more people out of school simply fighting each other.
At least Iran/Iraq are on the road to learning and progression and moving away from the extreme religious views, they will be doing that over the next 50 years as the price of their main export increases massively.
You're all so happy to say we're better than them so why do we need to change. IN 50 years the reverse could very easily be true, with healthcare, softened religious views, strong economy etc all thriving there. With ours all but broken, it could happen much sooner than that.
Infact, it might not be a law here but, we do still beat up gays and black and indian people here. Black people beat up white people here, murders have been racially and gender related so its not exactly massively different.
We as a nation/government when in and murdered, make no mistake, just because your army does it under orders from leaders, we MURDERED people in Iraq to get oil, you simply can not put it any differently. We've done this before in different wars. We take the fact that our peoples somehow came up with the idea we are better than the people over there, and that makes it ok to go over there, take their oil and murder their peoples. If thats not a LOT worse than killing one gay guy who, think about it might have even been a paedophile which is something a LOT of people in this country would be more than happy to do themselves let alone see part of law. Such blinkered views. Welcome to Idiocracy, seriously, I'm embarassed at how completely stupid we are for a developed country that had a fine schooling system only 20 years ago. Now we need padded lamposts.
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People were hung for homosexuality less than a hundred years ago in this country? As far as I can ascertain we haven't hung anyone for homosexuality for at least 300 years and I can't find any records of us ever doing it.
And the would have been right. It was barbaric.
Define a very very very short time. No hung homosexuals for at least 300 years, death penalty outlawed for 50 or so years.
And we got better, we stopped slavishly following a book of dubious authenticity and stopped commiting atrocities because it says it is OK. We now commit atrocities for much more pragmatic reasons...
I completely understand it, I just dont agree with it, especially as they also live in the electronic age. They have access to the same information we do but decide that gays are evil and need to be hung. Yep, still think it is barbaric.
********. My child isn't a feral monster, roaming the street murdering other children. Neither are most children. If you have a look back 150 years you will also find that the violence from our children is nothing compared to Victorian London.
Like hanging homosexuals?
And that has anything to do with hanging homosexuals? Would none of the above be happening if we were more moral and treated these filthy sodomites with the biblical contempt they deserve?
Soldato
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Crime on a massive rise? Source please as I don't believe that at all!
Caporegime
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yes , every point i made was completely and only about homosexuals, entire nations are clearly separated into two groups, those that kills gay people and those that don't.
You mention yourself the last person killed by the state was around 50 years ago, that to me, based on millions of years of evolution and thousands of years we've been pretty much at this stage of evolution makes me say yes, 50 years is TINY and 300 years is ridiculously small aswell.
You still seem to be not able to comprehend that 50 years is less than one generation. you simply can't change society completely in one generation. Rarely do people grow up, learn their values and children and massively change their outlook or beliefs as adults, some will, the majority won't. you're expecting them to change instantly because they have technology. Technology is fine, but history, and beliefs are taught in schools, schools there are still dictated as to what they learn based on previous generations being in control still. It takes time to change those beliefs and for schools to be teaching younger children newer things.
THe internet and freedom we have now ISN'T there in Iraq but you are acting like every kid can from birth have taught themselves differently.
We still have a lot of racism in this country, as i said, gay people, black people, white, indian are still attacked IN THIS country based on race, beliefs, gender, lifestyle but you pass that off as ok. You're also basing this on the situation where this guy who is involved was probably having sex with a BOY, something that people are disgusted with here, but you're ignoring that so you can have a go at the other culture.
Anyway i give up, your whole argument for why they are worse than us is because we didn't officially kill a homosexual for over 300 years. If you don't think gays, indians, and blacks have been killed in this country for racial/discriminatory reasons be it by the state of by the people who the majority thought it was fine, then you're deluded.
You are acting like your parents, and every generation before was perfect. 2 generations ago they had capital punishment. 3 generations ago there was widespread racism and lots of the same beliefs that "islamic" countries have now. Were woman treated the same, black people, gays, indian people, or where your great grandparents, maybe great great, all happy with all that. The biggest changes started not with the electronic age, but before that, through the industrial revolution, through massive scientific advancement in a very short space of time.
You are looking down on people on a global basis the same way they do on a local basis, but you think its different because you're better. They think its ok to kill gay people, although you are assume the population as a whole want it, but you have no proof of such. You think its ok to kill them for oil because they are "lesser" than we are. there is no difference here at all. Anyone can find any excuse to judge people to be lesser and then feel almost guilt free to do what you want to them. We won't be better until as a people we stop looking down on other people and taking advantage of them.
You also have to remember the UK mostly only advanced as far as it did because we oppressed many different cultures, plundered their resources to become as strong as we did. Had we stayed in the uk without invading places we wouldn't have advanced so quickly.
ANyway, keep looking down on those damn Iranian types because they do only what your people did before they learned a supposedly better way.
You mention yourself the last person killed by the state was around 50 years ago, that to me, based on millions of years of evolution and thousands of years we've been pretty much at this stage of evolution makes me say yes, 50 years is TINY and 300 years is ridiculously small aswell.
You still seem to be not able to comprehend that 50 years is less than one generation. you simply can't change society completely in one generation. Rarely do people grow up, learn their values and children and massively change their outlook or beliefs as adults, some will, the majority won't. you're expecting them to change instantly because they have technology. Technology is fine, but history, and beliefs are taught in schools, schools there are still dictated as to what they learn based on previous generations being in control still. It takes time to change those beliefs and for schools to be teaching younger children newer things.
THe internet and freedom we have now ISN'T there in Iraq but you are acting like every kid can from birth have taught themselves differently.
We still have a lot of racism in this country, as i said, gay people, black people, white, indian are still attacked IN THIS country based on race, beliefs, gender, lifestyle but you pass that off as ok. You're also basing this on the situation where this guy who is involved was probably having sex with a BOY, something that people are disgusted with here, but you're ignoring that so you can have a go at the other culture.
Anyway i give up, your whole argument for why they are worse than us is because we didn't officially kill a homosexual for over 300 years. If you don't think gays, indians, and blacks have been killed in this country for racial/discriminatory reasons be it by the state of by the people who the majority thought it was fine, then you're deluded.
You are acting like your parents, and every generation before was perfect. 2 generations ago they had capital punishment. 3 generations ago there was widespread racism and lots of the same beliefs that "islamic" countries have now. Were woman treated the same, black people, gays, indian people, or where your great grandparents, maybe great great, all happy with all that. The biggest changes started not with the electronic age, but before that, through the industrial revolution, through massive scientific advancement in a very short space of time.
You are looking down on people on a global basis the same way they do on a local basis, but you think its different because you're better. They think its ok to kill gay people, although you are assume the population as a whole want it, but you have no proof of such. You think its ok to kill them for oil because they are "lesser" than we are. there is no difference here at all. Anyone can find any excuse to judge people to be lesser and then feel almost guilt free to do what you want to them. We won't be better until as a people we stop looking down on other people and taking advantage of them.
You also have to remember the UK mostly only advanced as far as it did because we oppressed many different cultures, plundered their resources to become as strong as we did. Had we stayed in the uk without invading places we wouldn't have advanced so quickly.
ANyway, keep looking down on those damn Iranian types because they do only what your people did before they learned a supposedly better way.
Caporegime
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then you're a complete idiot, anyone that thinks crime is on the decline or staying level lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere. Seriously, did you manage to keep a straight face when you typed that or are you that deluded.
Also , now i think about it, IN ealing down towards brentford there are frequently fights outside a "gay" pub where yobs tend to get drunk and go down and beat up gay people, for being gay. yeah, we're so much better here.
Soldato
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USA and UK are equally unapealling to me, i only live here because i cant afford to move out yet. As soon as i can ill go join the rest of my family in the land of the free (France), where a man is still a man and your land is still your own land.
Not at all, but it was the act of hanging homosexuals that I said I found barbaric, plus cutting hands off, plus flogging women for being in the same car as a man they are not related to, plus killing people for choosing not to believe in god anymore, plus a whole lot of other things.
I understand why they do it, I just don't agree with it. You seem to think it is OK due to the fact that we used to do bad things too.
So we can keep on killing people for silly reasons just because in the grand scheme of things we haven't really been around for all that long? How will we ever get any better then? If we keep making excuses for it?
You seem to be unable to comprehend what a generation is if you tink 50 years is less than one...
No I don't, when have I ever said it is OK to attack someone? But at the very least it isn't state sanctioned. We still need to go a lot further in this country, I never said we didn't, but it is considerably better than state sanctioned murder due to sexual preference.
I haven't seen any proof of this, as far as I am aware he is being hung because of being homosexual, not because of raping children. Anything to back this up or is it just a way of trying distract from what they are doing?
No, my arguement is, it is wrong for the state to kill people for their sexual orientation. My arguement has never been "The UK is perfect" but "It is considerably better than Iran". I know which country I would rather live in, which would you rather live in?
No I am not, we are getting better but we have a long way to go. Iran doesn't really seem to be getting better. I can assure you that I don't think my parents were perfect. I certainly do not hold their beliefs when it comes to race and sexuality.
Do I? Again, point out where I said it was OK for us to kill them.
And that is the point, we have learned a better way, they haven't yet.
Soldato
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Thanks for the insult, you ****.
Well I work with several americans.
Over here I don't think any of them took the job to support anything but themselves (we make batterys for the millitary), however in newark, theres a fair few i suppose redneck kind of characters working on the production line.
Theres no definitive american mentality you know, I expect if you were an american on a council estate you'd hate the english, if you see where i'm going.