*** Youtube/Video thread ***

[dowie]

or the morons who are happily bending over and letting Apple screw them whilst paying through the nose for it

Apple are quite happy to give a good pumping to people who buy their products. If they're too thick to see the forest for the tree's then they may get used to it. They're just form over function, make a laptop with an insufficient cooling system as they prefer silence and a throttling cpu over a bit of fan noise.

I'll just leave this here:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/an-ibm-it-guy-macs-are-300-cheaper-to-own-than-windows-2016-10

He reiterated that, in his experience, Mac users needed less help. Though Macs make up about 15% of the PCs in use, only 5% of the help desk is dedicated to supporting them.

Previn said that while a Mac initially cost $117 to $454 more than a similarly configured Windows PC, over four years IBM saves $273 to $543 per Mac compared with a similarly configured Windows PC.

In other words, when you add in all the software a company has to buy from Microsoft to run and manage its Windows devices, Windows PCs are 3 times as expensive, he says.

"It ends up being $57.3 million more expensive per 100,000 Windows machines, or exactly three times the cost," he said. "And this is a conservative number. This represents the best pricing we've ever gotten from Microsoft."

At face value you might think they're more expensive, in reality the morons aren't the people buying Macs. Far fewer issues, much better made laptops, awesome trackpad. I'm not some fan boy evangelist, I first tried a Dell XPS when I upgraded last year and then sent it back and got the new MacBook Pro.

 

[Gerard]

I'll just leave this here:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/an-ibm-it-guy-macs-are-300-cheaper-to-own-than-windows-2016-10



At face value you might think they're more expensive, in reality the morons aren't the people buying Macs. Far fewer issues, much better made laptops, awesome trackpad. I'm not some fan boy evangelist, I first tried a Dell XPS when I upgraded last year and then sent it back and got the new MacBook Pro.

Might want to look into all the issues with thermals, keyboard issues, the increased soldering of components to make upgrading impossible. The reason there's not as many issues is they're designed to be disposable, so instead of jumping through apples hoops it seems like people ditch it and get a new one. Plus the amount of configuration options for macs is virtually non existent compared to the amount of possible pc configs you can get, all with their own quirks that can potentially cause issues. As much as he gets on my nerves, look at the issues Linus had with his mac and he had to go through back channels to get the parts he needed to repair it.

 

[dowie]

Might want to look into all the issues with thermals, keyboard issues, the increased soldering of components to make upgrading impossible. The reason there's not as many issues is they're designed to be disposable, so instead of jumping through apples hoops it seems like people ditch it and get a new one. Plus the amount of configuration options for macs is virtually non existent compared to the amount of possible pc configs you can get, all with their own quirks that can potentially cause issues. As much as he gets on my nerves, look at the issues Linus had with his mac and he had to go through back channels to get the parts he needed to repair it.

And in spite of all that they're still better value for money as per the link already given.

 

[Lakeland]

How can they be better value for money if they can’t be ‘repaired’? If a stick of ram goes you essentially need an entire new Mac.

Gone are they days where you buy a mac and triple the ram for £35

 

[dowie]

How can they be better value for money if they can’t be ‘repaired’? If a stick of ram goes you essentially need an entire new Mac.

Gone are they days where you buy a mac and triple the ram for £35

Well just look at the link provided already, might be a topic for another thread if we're going to discuss further as this is supposed to be the youtube thread but there is already data to indicate that they offer better value for money, have fewer problems etc..

 

[Minusorange]

At face value you might think they're more expensive, in reality the morons aren't the people buying Macs. Far fewer issues, much better made laptops, awesome trackpad. I'm not some fan boy evangelist, I first tried a Dell XPS when I upgraded last year and then sent it back and got the new MacBook Pro.

I know Apple products aren't "that" more expensive at initial purchase, it's when something goes wrong (which is fairly frequent otherwise Louis Rossman and others like him wouldn't be in business) that Apple prefer to try and rip the customer off by lying that parts cannot be repaired and charge for nearly a full system when a single component is faulty and could be easily repaired but obviously the profit margin for a repair is less than a full system.

When you're soldering SSD's to the motherboard that just screams petty & spiteful to me

If I buy a £1,000 pc and the SSD breaks, I can buy a new SSD for £150
If a buy a £8,000 MAC and SSD breaks, I can buy a new Mac for £8,000

Tell me, how Apple are pro consumer (I did call them anti consumer, not expensive ) ?

 

[dowie]

@Minusorange see previous link, it presents facts for multiple users not just anecdotes

 

[glenimp617]

 

[Scort]

@Minusorange see previous link, it presents facts for multiple users not just anecdotes

Sorry to add to the derailment of this thread.... but that link is talking about a huge corporation, where faults and savings are amplified way and above what the average user will encounter.

For a home user, and maybe even an SME, I still believe that Windows-based devices are better than Apple, from a cost point of view. Even with all the faults and additional software costs, I still believe that PCs/laptops are the better tool for the job.

From what I have seen over the years, Apple kit (whilst nicely made) is a 'must have' brand, a status symbol, a badge of honour - and people are blindly (imo of course) paying the excess to be able to show off that half eaten bit of fruit. I feel that unless you a professional need for one (music/video producers seem to use them a lot), there's no point having one over a PC.

 

[Minusorange]

@Minusorange see previous link, it presents facts for multiple users not just anecdotes

From the article

In other words, when you add in all the software a company has to buy from Microsoft to run and manage its Windows devices, Windows PCs are 3 times as expensive, he says.

What software is he talking about, because I've never once had to buy extra software in order to keep windows running

I stopped reading because it's obviously in reference to business cases while we're discussing general average joe off the street buying Macs

 

[glenimp617]

From the article



What software is he talking about, because I've never once had to buy extra software in order to keep windows running

I stopped reading because it's obviously in reference to business cases while we're discussing general average joe off the street buying Macs

business use I guess?

server 2016 cals (domain services)
system centre licences for software deployment, update control
and all the other stuff

not sure if you read in the news Microsofts new subscription based support for when updates fail. It's £10 a month per machine.

 

[Minusorange]

business use I guess?

server 2016 cals (domain services)
system centre licences for software deployment, update control
and all the other stuff

not sure if you read in the news Microsofts new subscription based support for when updates fail. It's £10 a month per machine.

Yeah but how does any of that apply to general consumers which is what we were discussing ?

Not to mention it's costs of software making Macs more economical in a business sense as opposed to solely the hardware side of things which we were talking about

 

[dowie]

It's not just software costs though, note the portion of time for the help desk dealing with issues etc.. too. Sure it's a business case we're talking about but the fact is it is a large sample size. They don't magically change just because they're being used for business purposes. We can also assume that the windows machines being compared against aren't exactly going to be low end either but well made business laptops etc..

 

[Gerard]

but well made business laptops etc..

As opposed to apple's form over function laptops

 

[Minusorange]

It's not just software costs though, note the portion of time for the help desk dealing with issues etc.. too. Sure it's a business case we're talking about but the fact is it is a large sample size. They don't magically change just because they're being used for business purposes. We can also assume that the windows machines being compared against aren't exactly going to be low end either but well made business laptops etc..

The point still remains, if a general user has a component fail on them and there's no independent Mac repair specialists near to them, they will end up having to pay anywhere from half to full cost of a new Mac to get it fixed

In what world is that cheaper than just replacing the broken component ?

In what world is being forced to buy a new unit consumer friendly ?

Yes at initial purchase Macs are competitively priced vs PC costs, we're not disputing this, what we are disputing is that when something goes wrong with that Mac (which WILL happen at some point) is that it's vastly more expensive to repair over a PC and Apple prefer to **** their customers instead of offer good customer support, charging £3,000+ for an entire motherboard when it's a single capacitor or resistor that's gone bad is NOT good customer support, it's just a way to rip off those loyal to you

I mean I can sort of understand, as their repair service does suck balls

But it's a ****** post sale experience for most if something does go wrong

 

[Gerard]

The point still remains, if a general user has a component fail on them and there's no independent Mac repair specialists near to them, they will end up having to pay anywhere from half to full cost of a new Mac to get it fixed

In what world is that cheaper than just replacing the broken component ?

In what world is being forced to buy a new unit consumer friendly ?

Yes at initial purchase Macs are competitively priced vs PC costs, we're not disputing this, what we are disputing is that when something goes wrong with that Mac (which WILL happen at some point) is that it's vastly more expensive to repair over a PC and Apple prefer to **** their customers instead of offer good customer support, charging £3,000+ for an entire motherboard when it's a single capacitor or resistor that's gone bad is NOT good customer support, it's just a way to rip off those loyal to you

I mean I can sort of understand, as their repair service does suck balls

But it's a ****** post sale experience for most if something does go wrong

Apple are reverting to the way they were in the 80's and 90's, nothing end user upgradable, everything locked in. They're even meant to be ditching intel in favour of using their own in house designed processors. They're just disposable pieces of crap that look good and not much else. Says a lot when they release a laptop with a cpu that can hit 100c and after their "fix" only hits 95c. Again, form over function, they'd rather design it to look good than think about thermals.

 

[dowie]

The point still remains, if a general user has a component fail on them and there's no independent Mac repair specialists near to them, they will end up having to pay anywhere from half to full cost of a new Mac to get it fixed

In what world is that cheaper than just replacing the broken component ?

In what world is being forced to buy a new unit consumer friendly ?

I didn't claim that specific aspect was consumer friendly. As for cheaper - I refer you, again, to the article where we seem to have data for a large number of users and we see lower costs indicating that they have fewer issues with Macs in general.

So as much as people love to hate them or want to rant about them etc.. the reality is that there is data out there that highlights they have fewer issues and are cheaper to run overall. And frankly I'm pretty happy with the build quality, track pad etc.. like I said before I did try a Dell, I'm not some fanboy type.

 

[Gerard]

I didn't claim that specific aspect was consumer friendly. As for cheaper - I refer you, again, to the article where we seem to have data for a large number of users and we see lower costs indicating that they have fewer issues with Macs in general.

Unless you want to render something then you have to have a fire extinguisher on standby

 

[Minusorange]

I didn't claim that specific aspect was consumer friendly.

Yet that's what we were discussing

Most people are happy with products until something goes wrong, I'm sure you'll be singing a different tune when your fan stops working and you have to pay £xthousand for a replacement

 

[dowie]

Yet that's what we were discussing

Most people are happy with products until something goes wrong, I'm sure you'll be singing a different tune when your fan stops working and you have to pay £xthousand for a replacement

Nah I was replying to the idea that morons buy them etc.. when actually they're the smarter purchase overall. I doubt I'd need to pay thousands for a replacement. They're generally pretty good in terms of CS anyway and I've bought the extended warrantee thing.