Anyone using Wegovy?

[Raymond Lin]

Look up Dr. Tim Noakes work on low carb athletes - they meet or exceed the efforts of carb based athletes, there are several world records now held by low carb athletes, so no exogenous carbs are not required - humans can convert protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis so any glucose requirement can be met via eating protein

It doesn't need to be expensive, even when I was eating a lot of steak it was less than I used to spend on a "balanced" diet, now I prefer burgers most days its £3.69 for a packet of mince (grass fed) plus half a pack of bacon, a few eggs, some butter, sour cream - its definitely less than £10 a day, I used to have £10 for just for lunch

That means nothing though, for every low carbs athletes who holds records there are 100x balanced eating athletes who also holds records. I am sure there is also vegans who holds some records too. What does it mean? Is my arguments 100 x more valid than yours?

£10 a day on food is a lot…I spend like £25 - £30 a week.

I also love vegetables, I am not eating them because they are healthy, if I don’t eat it for a few days, I crave it. When I go to Japan for 2 weeks. Every time after about day 4 or 5 (filled with diet of ramen, pork cutlet, prawn tempura etc I go in search of fruit and veg. I go buy grapes, salad, and one time I went to a supermarket and got one of those greens smoothie.

 

[andybird123]

That means nothing though, for every low carbs athletes who holds records there are 100x balanced eating athletes who also holds records. I am sure there is also vegans who holds some records too. What does it mean? Is my arguments 100 x more valid than yours?

£10 a day on food is a lot…I spend like £25 - £30 a week.

I also love vegetables, I am not eating them because they are healthy, if I don’t eat it for a few days, I crave it. When I go to Japan for 2 weeks. Every time after about day 4 or 5 (filled with diet of ramen, pork cutlet, prawn tempura etc I go in search of fruit and veg. I go buy grapes, salad, and one time I went to a supermarket and got one of those greens smoothie.

No, thats false equivalence, obviously there are more records on mixed diets because mixed diets are more prevalent - what harvard are saying is that "carbs are required for athletic performance" isn't true because athletes on low carb can meet or exceed the performance of a carb diet, so it is at the very least not detrimental
Prof. Tim Noakes has done extensive work on this and found the same

Dr. Sean Omara also does a lot of work with long distance runners who were eating high carb diets and despite being "young fit and healthy" discover they have fatty liver disease and high levels of visceral fat.

 

[robfosters]

Does anyone else who eats loads of protein find that it can give them GI issues?

 

[andybird123]

Does anyone else who eats loads of protein find that it can give them GI issues?

what sort of GI issues?
its a no from me, its the opposite, on zero fibre I get no GI issues, I just need to make sure I eat enough fat to smooth its passage so to speak

 

[robfosters]

what sort of GI issues?
its a no from me, its the opposite, on zero fibre I get no GI issues, I just need to make sure I eat enough fat to smooth its passage so to speak

Cramping and occasional steatorrhea

 

[Raymond Lin]

No, thats false equivalence, obviously there are more records on mixed diets because mixed diets are more prevalent - what harvard are saying is that "carbs are required for athletic performance" isn't true because athletes on low carb can meet or exceed the performance of a carb diet, so it is at the very least not detrimental
Prof. Tim Noakes has done extensive work on this and found the same

meh, can't be bothered....

 

[alec]

I feel as that is redundant as no carb removes that anyway.

Pretty much every other "fad" diet removes that too

Blanket statement "carbs bad" shifts the focus and places genuine good things like fruit, grains and vegetables under pointless scrutiny.
Could do even more damage than (now proven false) blanket statement "saturated fats bad, give you heart attack" that is still present in common knowledge.

In response to last bits
What works for one person doesn't for other. Mechanisms are still not 100% clear.

I think we should keep discussion to less controversial stuff.
Like added sugar and ultra-processed food (which includes anything with sweeteners by default). Hey, and alcohol while at it
Stuff for which there is enough proof that less is better.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Pretty much every other "fad" diet removes that too

Blanket statement "carbs bad" shifts the focus and places genuine good things like fruit, grains and vegetables under pointless scrutiny.
Could do even more damage than (now proven false) blanket statement "saturated fats bad, give you heart attack" that is still present in common knowledge.

In response to last bits
What works for one person doesn't for other. Mechanisms are still not 100% clear.

I think we should keep discussion to less controversial stuff.
Like added sugar and ultra-processed food (which includes anything with sweeteners by default). Hey, and alcohol while at it
Stuff for which there is enough proof that less is better.

I am old enough to remember that Lindford Christy, Sally Gunnel, Colin Jackson did an ad promotion bread is good.
I also remember the fad on low fat, or no fat foods, like non-fat yoghurts.
I also know there used to be a government ad in like the 50's or 60's promoting eggs for breakfast.
I also know there was a time when people say eggs are bad because of the cholestrals.

All I know is the truth is somewhere in the middle, and too much of something, whatever it is, even water, is bad for you.

 

[andybird123]

Do I believe Harvard or some bloke on the internet citing a “Professor” who believes HIV is a hoax? We have been very amicably talking about this for 24hrs now but your credibility has just plummeted.

False equivalence? You looking at a bunch of low carb athletes (I am just taking your word on this...not even asking for proof, do we have video evidence of all their meals? or take those people's word on it too?) and say that is evidence but when I say there are athelets who eat balanced diet also holds records, that is false equivalence? I call that cherry picking your stats to suit your argument, don't you?

How can you give credit to these athletes's records attributing to their diet? when there are lots of records held by people who eat carbs too. Do they not count? Why cherry pick? I never deny you will die eating just protein...however, I do advocate a balanced diet. Whether you will become some world class athethes and all that, success or failure, I am sure whether you have a bowl of rice a day is not the reason one succeeds or not.

No prof. Tim Noakes has not said that HIV is a hoax, thats a complete misrepresentation of what he referenced. Look at the wording of the tweet, he's calling out that people THINK that he said HIV was a hoax when clearly he didn't.

Are you stating that carb based athletes will always out perform low carb athletes? I'm not sure what your position is as you just seem to be looking for an argument, I'm not even saying low carb is always best, I'm just saying its not detrimental (which is what harvard claim)

Tim Noakes has been subjected to repeated attacks by people trying to discredit his low carb work yes, but he keeps being found innocent of what they accuse him of. https://www.nutritioncoalition.us/news/2018/6/8/professor-noakes-found-innocent-again
Do a bit of research on the origins of the food pyramid.

 

[Raymond Lin]

No prof. Tim Noakes has not said that HIV is a hoax, thats a complete misrepresentation of what he referenced. Look at the wording of the tweet, he's calling out that people THINK that he said HIV was a hoax when clearly he didn't.

Are you stating that carb based athletes will always out perform low carb athletes? I'm not sure what your position is as you just seem to be looking for an argument, I'm not even saying low carb is always best, I'm just saying its not detrimental (which is what harvard claim)

I am not looking for an argument. My stance is eat a "Balanced diet".

Your stance is "don't need carbs to live"...

We disagree...and I am not trying to make you eat bread. All I know is every form of diet and trend in the past 40 years has flipped on its head eventually, from fats are bad to fats are good. From bread is good to bread is bad.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, hence I am sticking with my balanced diet.

 

[Ayahuasca]

No prof. Tim Noakes has not said that HIV is a hoax

Of course, he won't come right out and say it, but he has a record of retweeting AIDS denialist posts:

Appears to have been a respected sports scientist who then went completely off the deep end and ruined all credibility. He doesn't take the scientific method seriously anymore and this makes any claims he makes highly suspect. For a guy who's pushing a diet on millions of people, that's pretty alarming.

This is just one of a few conspiracy theory topics he likes to skirt around to avoid cancellation. He knows how to grift.

 

[andybird123]

Appears to have been a respected sports scientist who then went completely off the deep end and ruined all credibility.

A lot of professors and doctors are "well respected" when they do pro-carb pro-pharma stuff and then when they discover low carb works just as well or better theres a concerted effort to remove their medical licence - Dr. Gary Fetke was another.

Your stance is "don't need carbs to live"...

We disagree.

so are you literally saying that you believe exogenous carbohydrates are required for human life to exist? because I've not eaten any significant amount of carbohydrates for 6 months, so I would deeply question that assumption, also are you aware of gluconeogenesis?

 

[Raymond Lin]

so are you literally saying that you believe exogenous carbohydrates are required for human life to exist? because I've not eaten any significant amount of carbohydrates for 6 months, so I would deeply question that assumption, also are you aware of gluconeogenesis?

You are the one looking for an argument. We disagree as stated previously.

The end.

p.s. I just ate an apple because I was hungry.

 

[andybird123]

You are the one looking for an argument. We disagree as stated previously.

The end.

p.s. I just ate an apple because I was hungry.

You disagree that gluconeogenesis exists?

 

[andybird123]

Again, citation needed on that last point.

Come on dude, its well known that to get your "pro" card in body building you need to be at a point in body building which is only able to be gotten to by taking gear, all the "pro" body builders take tren/anavar/test etc., there is not a single natty in the pro leagues
fake nattys on youtube get outed like every week

wiki; The IFBB does some urine drug testing, but, critically, not out-of-competition randomised drug tests.[4] Performance enhancing drug use is rampant because every bodybuilder knows exactly when they are going to be tested.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Come on dude, its well known that to get your "pro" card in body building you need to be at a point in body building which is only able to be gotten to by taking gear, all the "pro" body builders take tren/anavar/test etc., there is not a single natty in the pro leagues
fake nattys on youtube get outed like every week

wiki; The IFBB does some urine drug testing, but, critically, not out-of-competition randomised drug tests.[4] Performance enhancing drug use is rampant because every bodybuilder knows exactly when they are going to be tested.

You have a habit of only selectively addressing claims you make. I'm well aware pro bodybuilders are not natural, but that wasn't all you said, it was more the point where you claimed that bodybuilders and influencers who aren't natural are all going to die in their 30s and 40s, so their diets don't matter.

 

[andybird123]

You have a habit of selectively addressing claims you make. I'm well aware pro bodybuilders are not natural, but that wasn't all you said, it was more the point where you claimed that bodybuilders and influencers who aren't natural are all going to die in their 30s and 40s, so their diets don't matter.

Yeah there have been a few high profile deaths over the last year or so. Sam sulek is like 22 and you can see he constantly has trouble breathing.
"all" was obviously hyperbole

there are a bunch of bodybuilders who do LCHF, but predominently pro body builders do carbs because they take loads of drugs to gain muscle and lose fat rather than really caring about actual good nutrition, was my point, they just stuff in as much as possible without bothering about "eating clean"
the stacks they take do kill people, so I'm not sure I would follow their "health advice" as they are just trying to get unnaturally big to win a competition, they obviously don't care about longevity or health issues

 

[Ayahuasca]

Yeah there have been a few high profile deaths over the last year or so. Sam sulek is like 22 and you can see he constantly has trouble breathing.

The exception does not make the rule, just as your own case of a high carb meal leading to aching joints and a hangover feeling the next day does not apply to the majority. I could say that Arnold is fine at 76, as are many other pros who have made it to old age despite years on the juice.

In the vast majority of cases there's an underlying heart condition etc, so while getting juiced to the gills may have brought it on quicker, it's by no means common, probably a few percentage points higher than the general population for those on crazy stacks involving anavar, clen, tren etc.

Not advocating for following their health advice either.

 

[Raymond Lin]

You disagree that gluconeogenesis exists?

I disagree with your religious zealots level of belief into this diet.

Saying “I am still alive after 6 months of protein and no carbs” is like saying “I’m alive after 2 days of no water”. You are asking the wrong question. The question should be “what is the long term effect of cutting out X nutrients”.

Sure, cavemen lived with little to no carbs, but how long do they live overall? I bet it isn’t 90yrs old. (This is where you say they were killed by a boar or other diseases) By not eating grains you are lacking more than carbs, and no, I am not going to start popping pills to supplement. I like food.

You can be a complete zealots into your diet, I am not trying to tell you to eat bread. Why are you trying to tell me carbs are unnecessary? Which YOU ARE doing.

You accuse me of looking for an argument but look…you are the one looking for it instead and don’t even see it.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

For £200 a month you could get the top tier membership at a David Lloyd Leisure Centre with access to gym, spa, tennis, squash, golf and all sorts.

Surely that's more appealing than having to inject yourself every day and losing the love of food due to having no appetite.