Does something need to be done about dogs?

Caporegime
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However, you are ignoring the repeated reminder that you then said this was indicative of serious injury too, without any evidence for such.

That's already evidenced by the deaths - it's not like people either die from an attack or have mild injuries, in the most serious of cases where people could potentially die some will be saved by medical intervention and others will sadly die... that's dependent on the expertise of medical staff, how quickly an ambulance can arrive etc...

It was already established earlier in the thread that you think Pit Bull types are a riskier breed because they are more likely to kill, rather than seriously injure like most other heavily represented breeds.
Are you now going back on that assertion as well?

That's completely muddled, those things aren't mutually exclusive, quite the opposite; that a dog breed has been killing people doesn't negate that it seriously injures people too! The dog breed in question in the UK has been doing both (killing and injuring people) and killing other dogs on top of that too and that spike in incidents is what has caused the ban to br brought in.

Note again, you still defelct from backing up your assertion re: mongrels...
 
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Associate
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That's how every Dowie post comes across, really. This thread is the most incorrect he's ever seemed, though, given how many arguments and elements he suddenly 'forgets' about.
Suppose I should be happy he's no longer trying to ignorantly bang on about heritability, at least....
When humans are the controlling factor in what makes it dangerous to begin with, ignoring any understanding of this is just making the problem worse.
Why drag everything down to the lowest common denominator, instead of pushing people to higher standards?
mate, you are half the problem of the thread too, so dont go pointing fingers solely at @dowie. You equally do not answer, etc etc, I'm already bored of replying.

Why push people to a higher standard? Have you stepped outside and seen the type of public this gov brings up through education etc?
Majority do not want to be to "higher standards", whatever that means, truthfully it means you want people to act and think like your self.

Now imagine, countering sensible suggestions and legal action to reduce the death of a number of humans because you believe they are not to the same "high standards" as yourself and if they were, the problems would not exist. There's a name for this...
 
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I love dogs in general but I'm glad XL Bully's are being banned. No doubt if they hadn't become popular with layabout idiotic chav owners they wouldn't have become a problem but the fact is they have. I'd rather ban (and cull :D) the chavs than the XL Bully's but that's unfortunately not possible. Anyone who claims there was no elevated danger around these types of dogs and their culture is in denial imo.
 
Soldato
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That's already evidenced by the deaths
It's assumed on your part, and as already established, other breeds are more likely to seriously injure than kill.

it's not like people either die from an attack or have mild injuries, in the most serious of cases where people could potentially die some will be saved by medical intervention and others will sadly die... that's dependent on the expertise of medical staff, how quickly an ambulance can arrive etc...
Pit Bull types are more likely to kill in an attack. That's the issue people have with them.
Other breeds are generally responsible for a higher rate of serious injury, regardless of whatever expertise you're now wittering on about.

That's completely muddled, those things aren't mutually exclusive, quite the opposite; that a dog breed has been killing people doesn't negate that it seriously injures people too!
No-one said they were exclusive. I don't know where you came up with that idea.
Yes, a breed can also injure, but the issue raised was that Pit Bull types rarely just injure, being far more likely to kill compared to other breeds. Now you're asserting otherwise.

Note again, you still defelct from backing up your assertion re: mongrels...
Oh, it's indicative, of course...

mate, you are half the problem of the thread too, so dont go pointing fingers solely at @dowie.
I don't always have to be right, though, which is where Dowie gets his panties in a twist. Doubly so in this thread, because he's also wrong and has to ignore the evidence of others in order to maintain his illusion of his opinoin being the only thing that matters.

Why push people to a higher standard? Have you stepped outside and seen the type of public this gov brings up through education etc?
Because people should take responsibility for their own actions, and because otherwise we'll have to ban everything any time a few people do something stupid with it... Given the number of road deaths per year, cars will be the first to go.

You can't blame the government for this.

Majority do not want to be to "higher standards", whatever that means, truthfully it means you want people to act and think like your self.
Oh, in that case, let them own whatever dog they want. Any deaths will be the fault of the government....!!

I'm glad you believe I act and think to a far higher standard than you, but really it's just common sense and common courtesy.

Now imagine, countering sensible suggestions and legal action to reduce the death of a number of humans because you believe they are not to the same "high standards" as yourself and if they were, the problems would not exist. There's a name for this...
The suggestions are not sensible, though, as they do not factor in the actual causes of the problem, nor do they do anything to actually solve the issue.
Those "high standards" you're getting so flappy about are actually the opinions of Police, lawyers, vets, animal handlers and a plethora of similar industry professionals, though, all of whom have a far greater grasp of the issue.
I'd love to hear your name for this, though... and why you think their expertise is so irrelevant that you'd dismiss it.
 
Caporegime
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Pit Bull types are more likely to kill in an attack. That's the issue people have with them.

And in doing so they're also going to cause a load of very serious injuries too that don't result in death. Jeeze it's not a hard point to follow, that you want to waffle on about mongrels being involved in some number of attacks where skin was broken or whatever is irrelevant to that point and you still haven't brought anything to back it up.

That a little Chiuaua is more aggressive say is totally irrelevant, sure it might hurt when they attack, maybe they'll break the skin but they're not even capable of the most serious attacks which result in death or life-threatening injuries.
 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-68251166

Who would have thought....

I don't always have to be right
Debatable.

I'm glad you believe I act and think to a far higher standard than you, but really it's just common sense and common courtesy.
Hence I used it in quotes, I do not think you are to of higher standards and its telling of a complex that you think you are and want others to be like yourself.

Oh, in that case, let them own whatever dog they want. Any deaths will be the fault of the government....!!
Thats not what any of us are saying. Take off the red nose.
Those "high standards" you're getting so flappy about are actually the opinions of Police, lawyers, vets, animal handlers and a plethora of similar industry professionals, though, all of whom have a far greater grasp of the issue.
They might have an opinion, does not mean its the right way to protect people.

Honestly I cannot even be bothered to reply properly as your view and argument on this is just silly.
 
Soldato
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Dunno if this was widely reported:

It just demonstrates incompetence from the authorities at every level, the guy was already disqualified from owning a dog for five years - and he was walking around with an XLB.

We need muscle and enforcement, on the streets - the rule of law and authority need to be properly enforced, with real, harsh but fair consequences for people who just choose to ignore and break the rules.
 
Soldato
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And in doing so they're also going to cause a load of very serious injuries too that don't result in death. Jeeze it's not a hard point to follow
More likely to kill than merely injure. If you want to shout "Jeeze" and harp on about hard points to follow, start with your own ignorance.
That they cause 'some' injuries does not affect the fact that other breeds have a higher injury rate compared to their kill rate.

But then, you did also backpedal on this with "probably", as several studies examining the DDA effectiveness over the years proved your "going to" did not actually happen.
It's perhaps understandable as what you assert would be a reasonable expectation, but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't turn out that way.

that you want to waffle on about mongrels being involved in some number of attacks where skin was broken or whatever is irrelevant to that point and you still haven't brought anything to back it up.
"where skin was broken" - So you missed the serious injury part, along with the 6% of DDA'ed breeds resulting in hospital admissions versus the 18% from mongrels, and the highest proportion being unknown/mixed.... or you're just ignoring that and hoping it gets forgotten?

That a little Chiuaua is more aggressive say is totally irrelevant, sure it might hurt when they attack, maybe they'll break the skin but they're not even capable of the most serious attacks which result in death or life-threatening injuries.
Nobody mentioned Chihuauas, or made any argument concerning them.
Tell me again about going off on tangents....?

"Ms Martin's family previously said they were angry at the conditions the animals were kept in".
"How the hell can that be any good for an animal?" said Ms Martin.
"We're very angry. People complain [about] the dogs; it's not the dogs."

So being abused and neglected. I'm sure someone mentioned that as a major factor in dogs behaving badly.....

"XL bully is not a breed of dog in itself, but a sub-category of the American bully, and identifying categories of a breed can be a complex process."
Ch Supt Stuart Weaver

Funny how those working in relevant industries always agree on certain points. It's almost as if they've been reading this thread.

Debatable.
Well, I don't feel the driving need to always be right, at least.

Hence I used it in quotes, I do not think you are to of higher standards and its telling of a complex that you think you are and want others to be like yourself.
Firstly, I don't think I am, these are your words.
Secondly, it's nothing especially lofty and most other law-abiding people on this planet are already at that level, if not higher.

Thats not what any of us are saying. Take off the red nose.
What? You don't want to take training classes with your dog, or be a responsible owner? That's what 'higher standards' looks like in my world...
If that's too much of a burden for you and your government education, feel free to seek existence elsewhere.

They might have an opinion, does not mean its the right way to protect people.
Given that it's often their job to advise on what will and won't work, it's a good bet they're more likely to be right than anyone on this forum....

Honestly I cannot even be bothered to reply properly as your view and argument on this is just silly.
Did you ever reply properly? :p
 
Caporegime
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More likely to kill than merely injure.
[citation needed]

That's quite a bold claim tbh... I'll leave you to think about why.

"where skin was broken" - So you missed the serious injury part, along with the 6% of DDA'ed breeds resulting in hospital admissions versus the 18% from mongrels, and the highest proportion being unknown/mixed.... or you're just ignoring that and hoping it gets forgotten?

Feel free to drop a link to whatever you're going on about here... might be more constructive than sperging out yet again with the line-by-line multiquotes as I feel you're likely talking about injuries below life-threatening ones, but since you're seemingly unable to substantiate your claim we can't know.
 
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Caporegime
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Woman sentenced to 20 months for trying to cover up an XL bully attack:


As no adults were in the house, Roberts’ daughter phoned her mum.
They spoke on the phone for 13 minutes as Roberts rushed back to her house from Charlton.
Ms Sodipo said that during that time Roberts told her daughter not to call emergency services but to “sort that girl out or we’ll be in trouble”.
[...]
Roberts then told officers everything was fine and that nobody else was in the house.
When officers insisted on coming inside she told them to get lost unless they had a warrant, the court heard.
Meanwhile the young girl was passing in and out of consciousness in the bathroom.
The officers heard her call out “help me”, Ms Sodipo said.

Another "good boy", can't believe what happened... so good with children:
Abigail Penny, representing Roberts in court, said: “Ms Roberts had no hint that this dog would behave as he did. The dog had always been very good around her children.
 
Caporegime
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Soldato
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Woman sentenced to 20 months for trying to cover up an XL bully attack:




Another "good boy", can't believe what happened... so good with children:

A prolonged attack and then god knows how long without hospital treatment, Jebus wept what’s wrong with people.
 
Associate
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Its okay, if we hold then all to a "higher standard", they'll all be completely fine and have no tendencies to all of a sudden chew your child's face off.
 
Caporegime
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Its okay, if we hold then all to a "higher standard", they'll all be completely fine and have no tendencies to all of a sudden chew your child's face off.

Earlier in the thread the solution was some hand-waving about psychological messaging to persuade people to not own them or something... it wasn't too clear as he's never willing to clarify anything despite a keenness to reply with multi quotes.

Seems like a ban, while imperfect, already solves most of the issues - owners need to get a certificate of exemption (known bad owners can't have one), male bullies need to be neutered and the public is at less of a risk if they're muzzled. I can't really see any decent argument against it as if the position is that bad owners are an issue then that is dealt with via the ban and certificates of exemption.
 
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Caporegime
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A prolonged attack and then god knows how long without hospital treatment, Jebus wept what’s wrong with people.
I've seen a. Lot of xl bully videos where the dog is being aggressive to something (say a cat) but then just turns on anything else nearby.

Its like it goes into a frenzy where aything becomes a target
 
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Caporegime
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This is going to be endless no matter how many rules there are, only solution is a cull and if the government won't do it the public will.
 
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