Opinion: Started job but can’t afford to travel to office?

[sidimmu]

oh my what have I missed in here!

So, think a number of us have been proven correct this employee is and was always going to be a right nuisance.

 

[dlockers]

oh my what have I missed in here!

So, think a number of us have been proven correct this employee is and was always going to be a right nuisance.

Opinion formed with zero understanding of whether they have completed their assigned tasks. Ya know, the thing paid to do.

 

[swillsy]

lol this thread - surely it's over now? There's another thread discussing merits of home working.

Ultiamtely an employee won't tell you directly they are terrible - you need to pick up on signs/flags and this newb was likely going to be a chancer

 

[sidimmu]

Opinion formed with zero understanding of whether they have completed their assigned tasks. Ya know, the thing paid to do.

Been here since first posts lad.
Yes assigned tasks is what they are assigned to do, along with following companies policies and procedures, they agreed to the contract and terms and conditions of employment which as discussed in here, shows they allow for a hybrid approach, but this is a new employee not even wanting to agree or abide by the company expectations of employment.

All of your points have been countered in previous posts, you may want to update yourself with the thread and where we specifically are with this individual.

 

[Beasty]

Not a lot has been said about this employees ability to do the work set etc, this is surely the biggest question, in the first instance I'd have given the benefit of the doubt and let them somewhat dictate their working location and see how they get on. A lot of places operate on a give/take kind of policy now.

Having said if the employee knew company policy for the most part before starting then they're taking the mickey a bit, it's not like you can give someone special treatment especially when just starting.

A lot of this should have been bottomed out by the employee before they started in fairness and depends what they were promised before they started.

I briefly had a job where the recruiter said it would be a hybrid gig 2/3 in and 2/3 at home a week. My line manager to-be ignored emailed questions I had about this arrangement before I started and unsurprisingly this arrangement rarely transpired and I was told most of the work was in the office, it ended up costing me a lot more in money and time than I had anticipated getting the train most days.

He was a very poor manager but I also handled the whole situation poorly on my part too, I shouldn't have started the gig without those assurances but was a bit blindsided by the salary increase and getting out of my current gig.

 

[Scam]

Well I wasn't going to keep updating the thread for fear the newbie might find it or something, but seen as you bumped it. It is still ongoing with some additional fun that took place just before Christmas. I can't remember all of the details but according to my other half a few people who know what the newbie has been like were just saying to her "oh jeez, here we go again " lol certainly not a good sign for someone only been at the company for a few months.

Newbie's family-member was very ill just before Christmas so they had to take emergency leave. Newbie was already booked off for most of Christmas (obviously!) and as the timing happened myself and my other half were on leave when news of this broke. So the newbie contacted my other half whilst we were on leave, told her the situation and that she was flying home to be with her family-member. Newbie stated she would be taking the full 10 days bereavement leave* and actually cancelling some of her annual leave to carry over into the new year. Newbie didn't state when they'd be back, but did state they wouldn't be taking their laptop. They also stated the they would use the recently announced two free half-days leave for Christmas (i.e. company came out and said "hey guys have two afternoons off in the run up to Christmas!") by carrying them over to the new year as an extra day**. Newbie also (lol, yes it goes on) extended the period they were off by booking some days as the work-from-another-location***. All of this was told to my girlfriend, not requested.

*This doesn't apply to this family-member according to company policy, also needs manager approval
**These half days were to be used in 2023 in the run up to Christmas, they were not supposed to be carried over or joined into a full day
***Again, the work-from-another location is something that is up to manager's discretion and has to be approved well up the chain first

So yeah. Newbie was due back on the Tues 2nd (from what my girlfriend could figure out with all that) and did not contact my girlfriend once. Not even on the Tues when they decided to work from home instead of coming into the office. My girlfriend saw them on Teams.

Safe to say we all know how this is going to end now. The only thing I could say is to make sure my other half has all of this written down in the minutest detail. With a bereavement I guess that could potentially make things complicated and give the newbie an angle to exploit on their way out...

Having said if the employee knew company policy for the most part before starting then they're taking the mickey a bit, it's not like you can give someone special treatment especially when just starting.

Just to be clear, the policy was made absolutely clear. My girlfriend would prefer to WFH so it is very front of mind. However, she is an adult at a large company and accepts the policy.

 

[Doughnut007]

As I see it you have 2 options.

Either the employee is unable to honour the agreement you and and therefore should be terminated.

Or if you have recruited properly and you believe this is a genuine issue you support them for the first month.

The cost of finding the right employee is high so in the end it's a business decision.

 

[Diagro]

They need to be sacked.

 

[Mr Jack]

Well that should be a learning experience for all involved, I guess.

 

[OspreyO]

Not a lot has been said about this employees ability to do the work set etc, this is surely the biggest question, in the first instance I'd have given the benefit of the doubt and let them somewhat dictate their working location and see how they get on. A lot of places operate on a give/take kind of policy now.

Having said if the employee knew company policy for the most part before starting then they're taking the mickey a bit, it's not like you can give someone special treatment especially when just starting.

A lot of this should have been bottomed out by the employee before they started in fairness and depends what they were promised before they started.

I briefly had a job where the recruiter said it would be a hybrid gig 2/3 in and 2/3 at home a week. My line manager to-be ignored emailed questions I had about this arrangement before I started and unsurprisingly this arrangement rarely transpired and I was told most of the work was in the office, it ended up costing me a lot more in money and time than I had anticipated getting the train most days.

He was a very poor manager but I also handled the whole situation poorly on my part too, I shouldn't have started the gig without those assurances but was a bit blindsided by the salary increase and getting out of my current gig.

I think the person in the OP is obviously playing fast and loose with the concept of rules and policies. That is a habit or mindset that's unlikely to change. Then it's a question does their value offset the gain.

As for your other scenario. I think many of us have been miss sold a job in terms of expectations of the employer and employee. Post lockdown our place have made lots of tweaks to the rules that seem reasonable individually. But when you look at them collectively we've lost more than we've gained.

 

[Scam]

Post lockdown our place have made lots of tweaks to the rules that seem reasonable individually. But when you look at them collectively we've lost more than we've gained.

Funnily enough my place has now said they will begin enforcing a 3-days-in-the-office rule. I'm biased because I have an easy commute and like coming in, but I think it's a good thing. I think quiet-quitting (not sure I like that term tbh) or at least people doing the bare minimum at home is a massive problem. We have a broad separation of people in our team where it's the usual crowd in 3 days a week, some people in 1 or 2. Then people that you wonder if they'd left, are on holiday, or just watching Netflix at home when they reply with single line answers from their phone

If you think back to 2019, if someone said you only have to come into the office 3 days a week, you'd jump at the chance. Yes, a lot of office roles can technically be done at home in front of a computer, but does it make a good, rounded employee? I like at execs in my company and the best are the sort of people who get on well with everyone, remember names etc. But more importantly at that level your role revolves around working relationships, chewing the fat in meetings, and making decisions. If you're stuck at home it definitely lacks something when you're talking about human relationships. But I digress.

 

[uber soldat]

 

[OspreyO]

Funnily enough my place has now said they will begin enforcing a 3-days-in-the-office rule. I'm biased because I have an easy commute and like coming in, but I think it's a good thing. I think quiet-quitting (not sure I like that term tbh) or at least people doing the bare minimum at home is a massive problem. We have a broad separation of people in our team where it's the usual crowd in 3 days a week, some people in 1 or 2. Then people that you wonder if they'd left, are on holiday, or just watching Netflix at home when they reply with single line answers from their phone

If you think back to 2019, if someone said you only have to come into the office 3 days a week, you'd jump at the chance. Yes, a lot of office roles can technically be done at home in front of a computer, but does it make a good, rounded employee? I like at execs in my company and the best are the sort of people who get on well with everyone, remember names etc. But more importantly at that level your role revolves around working relationships, chewing the fat in meetings, and making decisions. If you're stuck at home it definitely lacks something when you're talking about human relationships. But I digress.

Problem I with this, is you've not mentioned any metrics of output or productivity. Just you need to "see" them working.

So many people look like they are working in the office but are actually not. Working relationships, People skills....

What would you say...you do here?

What would you say...you do here?

youtu.be

I'm being ridiculous obviously team dynamics are a thing, I do agree with that.

 

[sidimmu]

*Snip*

Well there is some of us in here that called this would happen from the start. Not trying to put myself above you or your partner by the way, its just funny how some of us saw this coming.
This employee is clearly a chancer and does not want to undertake the work required by the hiring organisation and will use all company policies and procedures against them to ensure they do not complete said work.

Hopefully this is all within probation period (cant remember) and this employee can be let go and they can go find another job to repeat the same behaviour at.

 

[OspreyO]

Well there is some of us in here that called this would happen from the start. Not trying to put myself above you or your partner by the way, its just funny how some of us saw this coming.
This employee is clearly a chancer and does not want to undertake the work required by the hiring organisation and will use all company policies and procedures against them to ensure they do not complete said work.

Hopefully this is all within probation period (cant remember) and this employee can be let go and they can go find another job to repeat the same behaviour at.

Exactly this...

 

[China Man]

I don't expect any other outcome than this unfortunately, 20+ years managing a business and hiring in London I am very skeptical of any issue early in an hire (first 8 weeks). Hard to hire good staff but easier not having to deal with bad ones from the start.

 

[Beasty]

Latest update

Newbie has crossed the line now (if not before), undoubtedly!

Some resistance may need to be offered though in terms of simply being told that they can't do these things. They have been given an inch but taken a mile.

Is your OH registering these concerns with her own boss etc? Am sure HR are aware to some extent too but obviously makes the process of getting rid easier the earlier they are made aware. It sounds like it's not her first rodeo in this regard though as you said she's moved people on before so I am likely preaching to the converted.


The WFH dynamic at my place is a strange one, it varies wildly from department to department and employee to employee. Equally some people in my wider team tend to work in their "studio" (they are a creative team) and I'll see one of them every month or so.

I wish I could work from home more but for one reason or another there is rarely anybody else in, 90% of this week I've spent on my own in a team of 6 and a wider team of 8 or 9.

I am in my 30s so have experienced the working world pre-covid and obviously after it, staff who never had a job pre covid definitely have a different mindset, not saying this newbie is one of those but just an observation.

We have a 21 y/o developer who does work pretty hard but seems to just set his own hours and working location, sometimes we do staggered shifts where people are supposed to get in around 1400 and stay till around 2200 but he still poles up when he likes. I wish my boss would get more of a grip on this sort of behaviour but it isn't up to me.

 

[Scam]

Well there is some of us in here that called this would happen from the start. Not trying to put myself above you or your partner by the way, its just funny how some of us saw this coming.

Pretty sure I had zero time for the newbie from the start. But my partner has managed a fair amount of people in her career, and I have managed zero So I was treading the line somewhat.

Is your OH registering these concerns with her own boss etc? Am sure HR are aware to some extent too but obviously makes the process of getting rid easier the earlier they are made aware. It sounds like it's not her first rodeo in this regard though as you said she's moved people on before so I am likely preaching to the converted.

She is actually travelling to the US to have a SMT (sort-of) week next week. She has kept him up-to-speed but this is nicely timed to go there and explain that the newbie will be going and this is why, and she needs her boss's support on it etc. Agreed about HR. They are most likely going to be the block. It's easier for corporate HR to not get rid of someone, and let the manager lump it afterall..

Funnily enough I had some of the facts wrong in my most recent post. The family member did not pass away for a start... But the newbie is actually taking the full 4 weeks work-from-another-location at the moment and due back beginning of Feb. Her reasoning was that they need to care for the family member. They had a catch-up yesterday and newbie was asking very specifically about what would happen if they didn't come back Fun times.

 

[Jae-So]

Well I wasn't going to keep updating the thread for fear the newbie might find it or something, but seen as you bumped it. It is still ongoing with some additional fun that took place just before Christmas. I can't remember all of the details but according to my other half a few people who know what the newbie has been like were just saying to her "oh jeez, here we go again " lol certainly not a good sign for someone only been at the company for a few months.

Newbie's family-member was very ill just before Christmas so they had to take emergency leave. Newbie was already booked off for most of Christmas (obviously!) and as the timing happened myself and my other half were on leave when news of this broke. So the newbie contacted my other half whilst we were on leave, told her the situation and that she was flying home to be with her family-member. Newbie stated she would be taking the full 10 days bereavement leave* and actually cancelling some of her annual leave to carry over into the new year. Newbie didn't state when they'd be back, but did state they wouldn't be taking their laptop. They also stated the they would use the recently announced two free half-days leave for Christmas (i.e. company came out and said "hey guys have two afternoons off in the run up to Christmas!") by carrying them over to the new year as an extra day**. Newbie also (lol, yes it goes on) extended the period they were off by booking some days as the work-from-another-location***. All of this was told to my girlfriend, not requested.

*This doesn't apply to this family-member according to company policy, also needs manager approval
**These half days were to be used in 2023 in the run up to Christmas, they were not supposed to be carried over or joined into a full day
***Again, the work-from-another location is something that is up to manager's discretion and has to be approved well up the chain first

So yeah. Newbie was due back on the Tues 2nd (from what my girlfriend could figure out with all that) and did not contact my girlfriend once. Not even on the Tues when they decided to work from home instead of coming into the office. My girlfriend saw them on Teams.

Safe to say we all know how this is going to end now. The only thing I could say is to make sure my other half has all of this written down in the minutest detail. With a bereavement I guess that could potentially make things complicated and give the newbie an angle to exploit on their way out...


Just to be clear, the policy was made absolutely clear. My girlfriend would prefer to WFH so it is very front of mind. However, she is an adult at a large company and accepts the policy.

This is crazy, sacked!

 

[jon86]

what would happen if they didn't come back

You lose your job and thus you stop being paid.

Also, how on earth would the employee think that bereavement leave can be taken for a sick relative? The short answer is that it can't.