Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

[Martynt74]

What do people use for gels etc for long distance? say 20 mile plus runs my body seems to get so lethargic at the 10 mile spot like im all out.

With my MS sadly I cant beat times like I used to so have sunk to run and walk a lot which is 10 min to 11 min miles, however I can still do long distance though.

Do you have a breakfast before runs what is your nutrition, back when I was running 20 milers I used to use them cliff gel block things but still felt like energy was gone from my body.

Edit: My knee playing up hasnt for over a year but noticed I hit over 110 miles in a month recently havnt done that for sometime, im going to have to jump on the bike to rest it I can run on it but hurts after.

Just to quote a really old post. What were the reasons you went down the route of diagnosis for MS?

I don’t know if it’s my wife being overly worried (she has ME so is often concerned about my health!)

Recently (last month or so) I’ve been having a lot of weird tingling feelings in arms/legs and some blurred vision and headaches the other week. I also seem to be constantly stiff, especially in ankles despite doing more stretching than ever. Combined with the fact I was diagnosed with Morton’s neuroma which is nerve based.

When I mentioned it to her, her mind went to them all being symptoms of MS but I don’t know at what point it’s at a level that should be investigated.

 

[Blackvault]

It is such a shame that Kelvin Kiptum has died aged 24. All that potential is gone. RIP

Kenyan marathon world record holder Kelvin Kiptum dies in road accident

The 24-year-old Kenyan athlete had the potential to be one of the greatest runners over 42km.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JustBen]

indeed, i only noticed quite far down the daily mail site. At such a young age had potential to bring the world record down even further.

 

[bingham67]

Dam so sad and devastating about Kiptum I reckon he would have beaten the 2 hours barrier without assitance before long.

Just to quote a really old post. What were the reasons you went down the route of diagnosis for MS?

I don’t know if it’s my wife being overly worried (she has ME so is often concerned about my health!)

Recently (last month or so) I’ve been having a lot of weird tingling feelings in arms/legs and some blurred vision and headaches the other week. I also seem to be constantly stiff, especially in ankles despite doing more stretching than ever. Combined with the fact I was diagnosed with Morton’s neuroma which is nerve based.

When I mentioned it to her, her mind went to them all being symptoms of MS but I don’t know at what point it’s at a level that should be investigated.

Turns out a lot has gone on since this with investigations have determined its not MS but a foot dystonia for me it where the muscles contract when they shouldnt in the foot. I feel like a lab rat and dont have any real solution or cure still ive had nerve tests and blood tests but all clear im happy its not MS of course though, but it been a very long road. Hopefully the next course of action will start from March when I see neurologist again we shall see what happens.

Sometimes I can run semi ok but my times have taken a huge impact I dont enjoy it as much as I used to, I transitioned to weightlifting and working with a personal trainer and enjoy that more now.

Still love the running as it just nice to go out and listen to music and zone out, I havnt had any of your symptoms tbh you might just have typical bugs this time of year and feeling weak it happens.

 

[Martynt74]

That's positive then.

Yeah, i'm fairly sure it's not MS. Just my wife has a neurological condition so i think she's concerned incase we both end up broken!

I've never been fast so that side of me will never stop enjoying it. For me it's the pain in my foot causing the lack of enjoyment. Especially as being naturally unfit, i lose everything really quickly which then means a few weeks of not running means i struggle to even do a 5k without walking

 

[Blackvault]

Hey there! I was wondering if you could help me out with something. I am currently on week 7 of Hal's novice marathon plan (aiming for 5-5:3 hours) and my long run is ramping up to 12 miles this week. I want to make sure I am properly hydrated throughout my training and was hoping you could give me some advice on how much plain water and electrolyte fluid I should be drinking. I have a 500ml bottle and a 1.5L Camelback, but I'm not sure if that's too much or too little. I'm aiming to use this 12-mile as a practice run. Any thoughts?

My statistics if that helps.
Male
36 Years Old
67Kg
5'10''
12-13 miles probably take 2:15 - 2:30hours.
Unavailable

 

[Martynt74]

I believe the standard practice is for 500ml per hour, which kind of makes sense for me. I wouldn't bother with a drink at all if only out for an hour or so (unless it's hot), but the key here is to try and get used to correctly fueling so you can scale up to longer events.

If i was out for that kind of duration i'd likely take 1l of liquid with me. My preference was always for 2x 500ml soft flasks in the front of a vest vs a big bladder. However in that absence i'd probably fill the bladder with 1l of liquid and see how you go. Try and be strict with intake. You don't want to run out with an hour to go, but then you also don't want to get home with loads left (This is where soft flasks in the front are handy)

I would say that unless it was a hot day or super tough with lots of hills. I would usually fall into the camp of getting back to the car with loads of liquid left. Especially with a bladder as it's hard to judge so i'd be super conservative as i had no idea what was left, then get to the car with 75% remaining.

Again, for 2 hours or so i probably wouldn't worry *too* much about electrolytes. Although i usually stick a tablet in my drinks more for flavour to avoid the plastic taste of water. Especially when warm.

 

[Blackvault]

I believe the standard practice is for 500ml per hour, which kind of makes sense for me. I wouldn't bother with a drink at all if only out for an hour or so (unless it's hot), but the key here is to try and get used to correctly fueling so you can scale up to longer events.

If i was out for that kind of duration i'd likely take 1l of liquid with me. My preference was always for 2x 500ml soft flasks in the front of a vest vs a big bladder. However in that absence i'd probably fill the bladder with 1l of liquid and see how you go. Try and be strict with intake. You don't want to run out with an hour to go, but then you also don't want to get home with loads left (This is where soft flasks in the front are handy)

I would say that unless it was a hot day or super tough with lots of hills. I would usually fall into the camp of getting back to the car with loads of liquid left. Especially with a bladder as it's hard to judge so i'd be super conservative as i had no idea what was left, then get to the car with 75% remaining.

Again, for 2 hours or so i probably wouldn't worry *too* much about electrolytes. Although i usually stick a tablet in my drinks more for flavour to avoid the plastic taste of water. Especially when warm.

Thanks for the advice. I do have access to another 500ml soft bottle if needed.

We plan to be running from Carrickfergus to Belfast's Saint George's Market for a coffee and bacon bap, so I can easily get food and fluids into me afterwards. However I'm treating this as a practice run for the marathon, I've updated my post with this fact. Does your advice still stand? Thanks

 

[Martynt74]

Yeah, i think i tried to cover that with the end of the first sentence. Same with food really, try and get used to eating food whilst running to find what works. Assuming your marathon goal is ~4-5hrs, then you'll need more than just water/electrolytes.

One of my favoured options was something like SIS Go, which is an electrolyte/carb drink. That way i didn't have to mess around stopping to open gels or worry about sticky rubbish. Over 2 hours is probably also a point where it's good to practice this. So maybe if you can, fill one soft flask with water and the other with a carb drink. Even both carb drinks would probably be beneficial. At 2-2.5hrs you're probably talking around 1500kcal burnt so getting around 350 in on the run will be useful for recovery too.

 

[Blackvault]

Yeah, i think i tried to cover that with the end of the first sentence. Same with food really, try and get used to eating food whilst running to find what works. Assuming your marathon goal is ~4-5hrs, then you'll need more than just water/electrolytes.

One of my favoured options was something like SIS Go, which is an electrolyte/carb drink. That way i didn't have to mess around stopping to open gels or worry about sticky rubbish. Over 2 hours is probably also a point where it's good to practice this. So maybe if you can, fill one soft flask with water and the other with a carb drink. Even both carb drinks would probably be beneficial. At 2-2.5hrs you're probably talking around 1500kcal burnt so getting around 350 in on the run will be useful for recovery too.

Cheers. I do have the gels sorted, but I'll look into an electrolyte/carb mix. I assume this is the product? I'm trying Cliff Bloks for this marathon, and based on a quick test during last week's 7 miles, they tasted nice and didn't seem to have any adverse effects!

Water points are:
6,9,11.75,15.5,17.25,18.5,22,24
Energy points are:
13.25,17.5,24

 

[Martynt74]

Yeah, that's the one i used to like most. Although i generally used this one because it's cheaper and i'm cheap

https://www.bike24.es/productos/44968?sku=180102&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAw6yuBhDrARIsACf94RU4Ow5VFiAv-qVjJwpjKOifiiSA7ntnfPRKg22VsqRdFEY0GXQ1Q28aAlN5EALw_wcB

Cliff bloks always get a great review. Again i rarely have them as i'm cheap. I think once you start getting into longer and longer runs, fueling on things like that gets too expensive. I think the first time i realised this was an 8hr run in the Lake District and got home and realised i'd probably consumed around £30 in carbs, and from that point on i just tried to use real food. It probably doesn't translate as well to a marathon though to stop and pull out a peanut butter wrap from your bag though

 

[platypus]

It is such a shame that Kelvin Kiptum has died aged 24. All that potential is gone. RIP

Kenyan marathon world record holder Kelvin Kiptum dies in road accident

The 24-year-old Kenyan athlete had the potential to be one of the greatest runners over 42km.

www.bbc.co.uk

Indeed, a real tragedy.

 

[platypus]

Hey there! I was wondering if you could help me out with something. I am currently on week 7 of Hal's novice marathon plan (aiming for 5-5:3 hours) and my long run is ramping up to 12 miles this week. I want to make sure I am properly hydrated throughout my training and was hoping you could give me some advice on how much plain water and electrolyte fluid I should be drinking. I have a 500ml bottle and a 1.5L Camelback, but I'm not sure if that's too much or too little. I'm aiming to use this 12-mile as a practice run. Any thoughts?

My statistics if that helps.
Male
36 Years Old
67Kg
5'10''
12-13 miles probably take 2:15 - 2:30hours.
Unavailable

Only real advice I'd give you is ditch the camelback and switch to soft flasks, if you can carry 1.5L in a camel back you can carry 2 (or even 3) 500ml soft flasks.

That aside, 2 litres for 12 miles seems an awful lot to me, I'd consume no more than a litre and only then in hot weather, this time of year 500ml max, but everyone is different and you do what is comfortale for you.

 

[platypus]

I have definitely got buyers remorse from the Fenix 7S Pro. I navigated this last week, and some parts where a struggle:

It's a great watch and I do like the battery life but some of the trickier parts of navigation were a struggle on the smaller screen. Might hit up a few of the local running clubs and see if I can swap it for the larger screen.

 

[Martynt74]

I have definitely got buyers remorse from the Fenix 7S Pro. I navigated this last week, and some parts where a struggle:

It's a great watch and I do like the battery life but some of the trickier parts of navigation were a struggle on the smaller screen. Might hit up a few of the local running clubs and see if I can swap it for the larger screen.

What did you have before? I had the 6X Pro and loved it and whilst I’ve moved to the Epix Pro 51mm I don’t question the upgrade cost vs what I got. I think the 7X would’ve been better.

I had a nightmare today. There’s a local hill (Calpe Ifach) a 300m high rock that’s a tourist attraction.
Set off on my dads ebike to the base point. Only to find it’s an appointment only system at weekends so I had to ride back to my parents place.
At this point I felt annoyed so cycled to a local rock climb but didn’t get much running done.

Have the. Spent from midday to now drinking beer, cava and wine. Not ideal at all!

 

[platypus]

What did you have before? I had the 6X Pro and loved it and whilst I’ve moved to the Epix Pro 51mm I don’t question the upgrade cost vs what I got. I think the 7X would’ve been better.

I had a nightmare today. There’s a local hill (Calpe Ifach) a 300m high rock that’s a tourist attraction.
Set off on my dads ebike to the base point. Only to find it’s an appointment only system at weekends so I had to ride back to my parents place.
At this point I felt annoyed so cycled to a local rock climb but didn’t get much running done.

Have the. Spent from midday to now drinking beer, cava and wine. Not ideal at all!

Just a Forerunner 645 basic with very basic nav. Unfortunately this was a gift from my wife so I can't really complain :grimace: .

 

[Martynt74]

Just a Forerunner 645 basic with very basic nav. Unfortunately this was a gift from my wife so I can't really complain :grimace: .

I guess in that way I’m lucky. My wife would never buy me something like this as she knows a how particular I am!

 

[D.P.]

Hey there! I was wondering if you could help me out with something. I am currently on week 7 of Hal's novice marathon plan (aiming for 5-5:3 hours) and my long run is ramping up to 12 miles this week. I want to make sure I am properly hydrated throughout my training and was hoping you could give me some advice on how much plain water and electrolyte fluid I should be drinking. I have a 500ml bottle and a 1.5L Camelback, but I'm not sure if that's too much or too little. I'm aiming to use this 12-mile as a practice run. Any thoughts?

My statistics if that helps.
Male
36 Years Old
67Kg
5'10''
12-13 miles probably take 2:15 - 2:30hours.
Unavailable

500mls is plenty for 2.5h run. A lot depends on temperatures, at this time of your you might not need anything.


a lit of amateurs worry far to much about hydration and electrolytes, and end up drinking far too much liquids which at best can lead to nausea but can quickly become deadly.

Being slightly dehydrated at the end of a run is perfectly healthy, has no impact on running performance or has any risks of cramping. Just drink water with some savory food when back home

 

[Blackvault]

500mls is plenty for 2.5h run. A lot depends on temperatures, at this time of your you might not need anything.


a lit of amateurs worry far to much about hydration and electrolytes, and end up drinking far too much liquids which at best can lead to nausea but can quickly become deadly.

Being slightly dehydrated at the end of a run is perfectly healthy, has no impact on running performance or has any risks of cramping. Just drink water with some savory food when back home

Only real advice I'd give you is ditch the camelback and switch to soft flasks, if you can carry 1.5L in a camel back you can carry 2 (or even 3) 500ml soft flasks.

That aside, 2 litres for 12 miles seems an awful lot to me, I'd consume no more than a litre and only then in hot weather, this time of year 500ml max, but everyone is different and you do what is comfortale for you.

Thanks for the advice, I thought I'd update this following the 12 miler on Saturday. It turns out the Camelback is only 1L in total, so I filled it with one soft bottle of 500ml and only drank 100-200ml from the Camelback. I went so much water to try and simulate what I'll carry in the marathon in May, hence asking for advice. As for gels, I ended up eating 1.5 packets of Cliff Bloks and generally felt good by the end of the run.

Afterwards, we pigged into this... 6 slices of bacon, 2 sausages, 1 fried egg and a massive toasted soda. You don't see Eluid eat this...

 

[platypus]

Not sure that qualifies as good recovery food but its well earned nonetheless . Well done @Blackvault!