The photos posted. The poor/unrealistic initial quote. The bad attitude. Throwing fist in the face of someone who's given him £160k.
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Project: Two storey/part single storey side and rear extensions
- Thread starter kai
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Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2012
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Yeah there has been a few **** ups and maybe the builder has some anger issues but tbh OP has ended up with quite a nice product. The plumber looks like the biggest clown.
I got the impression that the OP created a spec and expected the builder to follow it. In the OP own words "I'm not in the trade, and it's not like I'm involved in this type of process frequently. About 95% of the processes we've been through was entirely new to us", there was probably tension from the start especially if the builders experience and knowledge is being questioned. Maybe the OP is a difficult client?
I think its more unrealistic to expect a project of that size to not run over, from what the OP said it hasn't by much anyway.
All of that should be a walk in the park for someone with "30 years experience" you're almost excusing his behaviour.
Didn't he steal one of the ovens as well?
The developer had a pretty detailed specification provided by the architect and structural engineers, totaling well over 100 pages. Additionally, I provided 3D renders of every room and top-down views.
I understand that my posts are going to come across as one-sided (there is no one to argue the case from the other side); however, overall, we have ended up with a resonable end product. It' wasn't like we did things on the cheap. Down this area, £160K get's you a lot for your money. We didn't just go with the cheapest quote.
The biggest issues have been the plumbing and 1st fix carpenter (both of which the developer has confirmed has been an embrassement to his work and both been fired, so we are told)
Nevertheless, the journey has been somewhat chaotic. The original outline aimed for completion by September 2023. Unfortunately, this deadline kept getting pushed back, making it clear that we had nowhere to live after December. Despite all assurances and promises, a definite completion date has still not been given. We moved in a little over a week ago, but we still have no secure doors, and work on the exterior has not even begun. We have gone with our own window and door company now and will sort finance out later.
What was initially planned as a 4/5-month project is now looking like it will take 12-13 months to complete. While delays were expected, the process, struggles, and outright lies/aggression were not. We are told we are the lucky ones, because we have been stubborn, contacting him frequently and not backing down and following up with formal emails etc it has had no choice to push on or end terms. Some projects (we have been told) are still going on 3 years down the line without basic items like heating or running water.
Also in my defense:
Imagine some guy coming up to you dismissing all of your experience and presenting an alternative path.
I expected something a bit more than 5-6 bullet points on a page (the first quote given). For that sort of money, i was going to need more information as every other builder has provided breakdowns, 2 of them are doing full QS excersises to ensure accuracy. Alarm bells should have been ringing then (again this is on me and lesson learnt)!
Ha, i almost forgot about that. The oven that was still on our bill (even though it was refunded to his account) went magically missing and i later found was used on another job.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2012
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I'm obviously not excusing any outbursts described by the OP but sometimes things are not as black and white regarding some of the other things.
Not trying to paint you as the bad guy as you have obviously had issues with the project, just trying to give a balanced view on some of the points raised.
My problem is I expect someone, who you're paying a lot of money to do a job, to act professionally and to do a good job. I guess I am naive, especially when it comes to 'trades'. Often they come across as though they're doing you a favour. I suppose they can afford to be this way because it's a sellers market, so to speak.
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We have received our Juliet glass, but it's not what we ordered with the developer (surprise, surprise), both in terms of color and its depth from the wall (the non-opening side will be extremely difficult to clean). At this point, I'm somewhat exhausted by the hassle of arguing and have decided to live with it for the time being. I plan to either have it sprayed white or wait until we get building sign-off to replace it with an actual frameless single glass piece.
From the outside, it looks okay, apart from the combination of satin chrome on black on white
Not so great from the inside the inside.
He is due to start the landscaping outside next week and is already mentioning drainage and various other considerations that impacting him doing what is quoted. Although we have technically paid most of the amount due, with only £6,500 remaining (of which we have used £3,900 to purchase front doors independently), there are still outstanding issues.
I have a landscaper and gardener whom we've worked with in the past coming tomorrow to provide a quote. I believe we are at a point where we should have him finish the pointing work on the outside next week, and then we can consider refusing to pay the remaining £2,600, as correcting or rectifying many of the issues could end up costing us significantly more
From the outside, it looks okay, apart from the combination of satin chrome on black on white
Not so great from the inside the inside.
He is due to start the landscaping outside next week and is already mentioning drainage and various other considerations that impacting him doing what is quoted. Although we have technically paid most of the amount due, with only £6,500 remaining (of which we have used £3,900 to purchase front doors independently), there are still outstanding issues.
I have a landscaper and gardener whom we've worked with in the past coming tomorrow to provide a quote. I believe we are at a point where we should have him finish the pointing work on the outside next week, and then we can consider refusing to pay the remaining £2,600, as correcting or rectifying many of the issues could end up costing us significantly more
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As above - put it in writing to him now.
Do not let him near the garden etc - Put your calcualtions above into writing to him - £6500 owed minus the cost of the doors = £2600. You feel that the cost of the remedial work will be significantly more than this figure - therefore, you wish to part ways now without any further payment.
If he wants to fight that - fair enough, but you then present a full list of items you want fixed before any payment is made. No matter how aggressive or how stroppy he gets - Do NOT pay another penny before everything is completed to the standard you require.
Personally I'd tell him to do one at this stage and deal with the final stuff yourself. yes it will cost you, but with the disaster so far, you'll end up better off I suspect.
Do not let him near the garden etc - Put your calcualtions above into writing to him - £6500 owed minus the cost of the doors = £2600. You feel that the cost of the remedial work will be significantly more than this figure - therefore, you wish to part ways now without any further payment.
If he wants to fight that - fair enough, but you then present a full list of items you want fixed before any payment is made. No matter how aggressive or how stroppy he gets - Do NOT pay another penny before everything is completed to the standard you require.
Personally I'd tell him to do one at this stage and deal with the final stuff yourself. yes it will cost you, but with the disaster so far, you'll end up better off I suspect.
The developer had penciled in one day to get everything done this week, including digging out and replacing the old slabs, covering an area of around 36 square meters. However, he refused to replace any slabs he had broken or not protected.
We made the decision to hire a reputable landscaper we've used in the past to handle the leveling and runoff. It became apparent that it would take him and his team around 2-3 days just to dig out the area and level it properly. Additionally, he refused to reuse all the old slabs, claiming they were unusable due to damage caused by the developer. Based on the landscaper's recommendations, we've decided to deck the entire area with good quality composite decking, allowing for a level walkout from the kitchen. Although the landscaper can't start the work until June, we're willing to wait to ensure it's done properly.
This project will address the bottom end of the garden and the mess left by the builder. We plan to tackle the top end later in the year, (around 50-60 sqm of decking needed) where we'll be installing a bar, pizza oven, and undercover pergola/kitchen, once funds.
We phoned the developer and firmly instructed him, "Do not touch our garden," emphasising that we would be installing decking later in the year. However, he immediately attempted to sell us composite decking cheap that he had left from another job and insisted on discussing the pricing of the remaining funds.
As for the driveway rear door this was fitted on Friday. It was so refreshing to actually have a company come in and take pride in the work. Arrive on time, put down dust-sheets and clean up after them. Faith is somewhat restored to know there are geniue companies out there wanting to provide a good quality service.
The developer will need to repoint the brickwork outside, as there are numerous gaps that need attention. Additionally, I've requested them to apply acid to the drive and address some of the bricks below the door. There's just some pointing left, and they need to finish the inside of the door reveal with plaster and proper finishing. Once these tasks are completed, we can finally move and get rid of him for GOOD
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Good to know you are nearly done with the build. It must be a bit of a relief.
As you have the time before the landscaper can start get a couple more quotes just to check the pricing and what he is telling you.
I get vibes he is trying to upsell you a bit and 2 to 3 days to dig out 36 square meters seems excessive unless he is hand digging it.
As you have the time before the landscaper can start get a couple more quotes just to check the pricing and what he is telling you.
I get vibes he is trying to upsell you a bit and 2 to 3 days to dig out 36 square meters seems excessive unless he is hand digging it.
Yes, unfortunately, we had to dig out the area by hand because we no longer have the luxury of digger access, primarily due to the change in property entry and the existing decking in the way. Decking, although more expensive in materials, requires less labor, while slabs are more expensive in labor but cheaper in materials.
It was much the same and i feel the decking would look better.
Yes, the new entry opens to stepped decking. When we initially had the decking built, we didn't have the extension in mind or access to the rear garden ever being there. We plan to remove the deck from this side of the garden and rebuild it when we're ready to incorporate the outdoor kitchen, etc. Unfortunately, we can't afford to have it all done at the same time right now. If we were able to do so, we could bring in the digger in expedite the process of the new decking / slabs further down.
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Now that we have decided to do the decking (in hindsight) it's a much better solution. This now gives the added benefit of the entire kitchen when the doors are open being linked to the outside at the same level, thus no digging is required. For older family, freinds etc just makes things so much easier with no added steps. Plus i think it will look a lot smarter than indian sandstone.
This is the decking colour we have picked and how the finish will be in terms of level.
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Ah very nice so decking removes the need to dig, i missed that previously. I never used to be a decking fan but when composite decking started to appear it was more appealing. If i had a space that needed heights or slopes managing i would most likely go with composite decking myself now.
Its going to look good once done.
Its going to look good once done.
Soldato
When we did our ensuite, I had an in-wall cistern fitted, however, I insisted that it had a screwed in access panel (tiled on top) fitted with coloured sealant to match the grouting so that we could replace the cistern and access the valves should we need to.. the plumber was ??? and said he never does that.. it took him nearly a day to sort it all out, so it's definitely a cost issue, but no way was I going to have it buried in the wall with no relatively easy access.. We recessed the fixings and put coloured sealant over them, so to remove, you do need to pick the sealant out (takes 2 mins) and cut the sealant around the grout line, then unscrew, remove and it's large enough to life the entire cistern out..
It's only been 5 years and already the main flush is sticking every now and again so might need replacing soon.. so glad I pushed for that..
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The saga continues, and the issues with the **** plumber's work persist. This morning, my wife was running a bath while I was eating breakfast in the kitchen. Suddenly, I heard a drop of water, then another, and I looked up to see water coming from the ceiling lights. I sprinted upstairs, thinking she had forgotten about the bath, but to my surprise, the bath wasn't even a quarter full.
I've turned off the water flow, but it has spread across the ceiling, and it's likely that the entire section of the kitchen ceiling will need repainting. I have no idea what damage it may have caused that isn't immediately visible—I'm hoping these things will just dry out over time.
My wife called the developer, who comically tried to blame the cold weather. Someone is supposedly coming on Monday, but she insisted it's an issue with the inside pipes and demanded that X (the competent worker) come up here immediately.
I believe it's coming from the freestanding bath tap. I assume floors are going need to come etc
I've turned off the water flow, but it has spread across the ceiling, and it's likely that the entire section of the kitchen ceiling will need repainting. I have no idea what damage it may have caused that isn't immediately visible—I'm hoping these things will just dry out over time.
My wife called the developer, who comically tried to blame the cold weather. Someone is supposedly coming on Monday, but she insisted it's an issue with the inside pipes and demanded that X (the competent worker) come up here immediately.
I believe it's coming from the freestanding bath tap. I assume floors are going need to come etc
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Soldato
Surely the bath tap was tested after it was moved closer to the bath..??The saga continues, and the issues with the **** plumber's work persist. This morning, my wife was running a bath while I was eating breakfast in the kitchen. Suddenly, I heard a drop of water, then another, and I looked up to see water coming from the ceiling lights. I sprinted upstairs, thinking she had forgotten about the bath, but to my surprise, the bath wasn't even a quarter full.
I've turned off the water flow, but it has spread across the ceiling, and it's likely that the entire section of the kitchen ceiling will need repainting. I have no idea what damage it may have caused that isn't immediately visible—I'm hoping these things will just dry out over time.
My wife called the developer, who comically tried to blame the cold weather. Someone is supposedly coming on Monday, but she insisted it's an issue with the inside pipes and demanded that X (the competent worker) come up here immediately.
I believe it's coming from the freestanding bath tap. I assume floors are going need to come etc
I'd be asking for a copy of this bloke's indemnity insurance. Keep a receipt of every single penny the inevitable repairs and remedial work costs and send him the bill, via MoneyClaimOnline if necessary.