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Soldato
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It's not even a technicality. You have a bee in your bonnet about him being a YouTuber due to the level of opposition he has fought in his first 10 fights when the reality is if you look at any of your favourite boxers, especially ones without an extensive amateur career, they probably have done the same. Fighting journey men who have come to find a comfortable space on in the ring to lay down or just survive the rounds.

Canelo didn't fight anyone with a winning record until fight 24. Anthony Yarde has been in there with Kovalev and Beterbiev and his last fight was against a part time fireman...

Holding him to a different standard that most 'professional boxers' don't even adhere to is wild and unfair.

Not liking the guy cause he's a total idiot is one thing but you can't dismiss him as just a YouTuber when it's clear he is more than that at this point.



Look at Froch's first 10 fights. A who's who of nobodies. You can make a very credible argument that beating MMA fighters like Silva has been harder than the puddings most pros pad their records with at the start of their professional career.

This is not to say that Paul will do anything of note. I doubt he could even do well in a NA Regional belt. But he is professional boxer and doing what pros do.
Come on man, firstly, Silva was 46ish at the time, a 20 year gap! Secondly, it was a 'controversial' decision. Thirdly, do you really think he'd beat Silva if Silva was trying? I seem to recall Silva wasn't throwing with much intent at all.

How many of those fighters you mention fought 5 "boxers" on their debut in their first 9 fights, over a 4 year period?

I can't believe we're even having this conversation :)
 
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Soldato
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Not at all, I accept Paul is a professional fighter, I was talking in a wider sense. Paul’s only fight of note IMO, was Fury. That is the closest reasonably matched sanctioned bout over a decent distance.

Paul’s other fights were no better than televised local gym sessions. For me the question is one of talent, ability and potential. Jake Paul has displayed little of anything other than the will of stepping in the ring. I think this is what gets up peoples nose and the reason people like Carl Froch question the validity of Paul claims. Froch has a point though Paul is a useless boxer and looks a complete novice with very little in the way of talent.

As you asked, could Paul win an area title? Or would a more talented Plumber from Coventry, working 50 hours a week while holding down family life and training 10 hours a week just walk all over him after fixing a toilet the same day.

And you can argue that taking the Fury fight, even though I don't think much of him either, is a bigger step than most professionals take in their first 10 fights.

If I'm honest a lot of it comes from envy. If I were a boxer who had to go the hard route fighting down on the bottom of cards, having to sell my own tickets to get onto an event and barely making any money after paying my team; I'd be pretty sour at seeing a novice making millions fighting tomato cans. That's completely understandable. But it doesn't change the fact that even some of the most decorated boxers fight absolute puddings at the start of their career. Sometimes they do that even if they've had a few amateur bouts. It's not fair to judge Paul for looking a bit rubbish when he is learning on the job with no amateur career and no combat sport experience prior to getting into the sport.

It's just sour grapes.

Paul is in a bit of a difficult situation, really. Like it or not, he has a humongous following of people willing to pay to watch him fight. He doesn't have the 'luxury' to fight journeymen on small cards to better his craft. Everything he has to do is on the mainstage. That takes more balls than some professional fighters fighting some no hoper in a leisure centre. His learning fights are getting thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of eyes on them, that is not normal and a different type of pressure in its own right.

Just look at someone like Campbell Hatton who had a lite version of the spotlight Paul received and how it was detrimental to his career. He couldn't perform under the pressure and he wasn't even headlining shows.

People are expecting Paul to perform at a high level when he is essentially a 10 fight novice learning on the job. Networks aren't going to put his shows on if he was to fight a 3-60-2 fighter, which is exactly what he should be doing but then you'd get people complaining that he's fighting journeymen.

He is in a lose-lose situation all because he has a following.
 
Soldato
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Why can't he fight journeymen? He doesn't have to have all his fights on YouTube.

Plenty of famous people do sports behind closed doors.
 
Soldato
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Come on man, firstly, Silva was 46ish at the time, a 20 year gap! Secondly, it was a 'controversial' decision. Thirdly, do you really think he'd beat Silva if Silva was trying? I seem to recall Silva wasn't throwing with much intent at all.

How many of those fighters you mention fought 5 "boxers" on their debut in their first 9 fights, over a 4 year period?

I can't believe we're even having this conversation :)

Just for clarity If Paul started fighting some people with records like 1-59-4, 5-30-3, 6-6-0 and 10-4-6 you'd then take him seriously?
 
Soldato
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Just for clarity If Paul started fighting some people with records like 1-59-4, 5-30-3, 6-6-0 and 10-4-6 you'd then take him seriously?
A bit more seriously but not much more, no.

My issue is with his attitude - stating that he's some sort of big time boxer, whilst he is big time (marketing) he's no better than your average novice.
 
Soldato
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He of course could. But why would you do that when you can get paid millions fighting 'names' from another combat sport?
I dunno, you're the one who said he doesn't have the luxury of fighting journeymen.

Why doesn't Zuckerberg do BJJ live streamed on Facebook?

Why don't we see footballers playing golf?
 
Soldato
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A bit more seriously but not much more, no.

My issue is with his attitude - stating that he's some sort of big time boxer, whilst he is big time (marketing) he's no better than your average novice.

But that is literally what novice pros do. He would be acting like a novice pro and you wouldn't respect him for it. So he may as well do what he is doing because in the eyes of some people he can't win.

Shocker: Person in combat sports say they're the best ever.

edit: Just say you hate the guy. There's nothing wrong with that. I could go through pretty much most pros starting 10 fights and it would be them fighting absolute no bodies that Paul could probably beat as well.
 
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Soldato
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A bit more seriously but not much more, no.

My issue is with his attitude - stating that he's some sort of big time boxer, whilst he is big time (marketing) he's no better than your average novice.
The same as Tommy Fury, he's living off the name.
 
Soldato
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But that is literally what novice pros do. He would be acting like a novice pro and you wouldn't respect him for it. So he may as well do what he is doing because in the eyes of some people he can't win.

Shocker: Person in combat sports say they're the best ever.
Fair point. I'd also say that those novices should be humble too and not get too big for their boots - be more like Beterbiev and Bivol. Perhaps it's a cultural thing in the West.
 
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Soldato
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Just for clarity If Paul started fighting some people with records like 1-59-4, 5-30-3, 6-6-0 and 10-4-6 you'd then take him seriously?

I’d take him seriously if he made credible claims and displayed some actual talent. IIRC Paul vs Fury was an 8 rounder and Paul was melting towards the end of that after doing very little.

As you rightly point out, Paul has such an advantage over any other boxer in he can pay for the best of everything, and has the most important advantage of all, in the ability to commit himself solely to boxing. I’ve often dreamt about taking a year off work and focusing most of time to boxing and where that year might have lead me. I definitely wouldn’t have been claiming I’d become a world champion though.

I judge Paul on his performance and even with every advantage possible, well we all have eyes and opinions. All Paul has shown to me is the willingness to step in the ring and have a fight. And props to him for that, but if he keeps stepping up his lack of ability and experience is going to get him hurt. Imagine if Paul bumped into an undiscovered David Haye or some journeyman ringer looking to make a name for himself. Paul’s ability to take and recover from concussive punches hasn’t been tested at all and that’s a critical part of anyones early career.
 
Soldato
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And that's almost part of the problem he has. A lesser known fighter starting out is going to have a few fights with journeymen who have no ambition, turn up to give the 'A' side a few rounds, survive and leave with a paycheque. Cause Paul now has a name even the most reliable career journeymen are going to be tempted to make a name for themselves being 'the one to beat up Jake Paul'. Which is sad that would even be an accolade but if we are honest, it would be.

If I were managing him, and he was in the UK, I'd give him a few credible gimmie fights then see if he could get an area belt. then English then eventually the Lonsdale belt.

I'd quite like to see him in with a top 100 cruiserweight. See what is what. He has certainly improved during his short tenure and from the video is see of him, he does train hard and lives the life, but I've no idea where he actually is.

That being said I do believe he is a net positive to boxing. His work with Serrano and female boxing getting them better pay, promoting the US Olympics boxing team and most importantly winding up Dana White over the slave wages at UFC. I don't like Jake Paul the man but I respect what he has done
 
Soldato
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I seriously doubt the guy gives a flying **** about belts. It's all about the big money, and that's what most/all boxers are in the game for.

He's just managed to use his platform and carve a niche that gave him a shortcut to that objective and will milk it for as long he can get away with it.
 
Soldato
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But that is literally what novice pros do. He would be acting like a novice pro and you wouldn't respect him for it. So he may as well do what he is doing because in the eyes of some people he can't win.

Shocker: Person in combat sports say they're the best ever.

edit: Just say you hate the guy. There's nothing wrong with that. I could go through pretty much most pros starting 10 fights and it would be them fighting absolute no bodies that Paul could probably beat as well.
I know nothing about the guy outside of the boxing world, he's clearly a very talented marketer. I don't hate him and don't dislike his attitude any more than I would if it was anyone else doing the same. I mentioned Tommy Fury also.
 
Soldato
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I seriously doubt the guy gives a flying **** about belts. It's all about the big money, and that's what most/all boxers are in the game for.

He's just managed to use his platform and carve a niche that gave him a shortcut to that objective and will milk it for as long he can get away with it.
Meant to quote this in previous post
 
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