What did *you* do to get your promotion?

[BennyC]

Make yourself invaluable and make it clear that you're ambitious. If they want to keep you, they will.

Sometimes it can come down to right place, right time. Succession planning can be a large factor too, a slightly longer game and no guarantee still.

 

[OspreyO]

A few thoughts off the top of my head... Because my role has changed vastly from what it was when I joined. I was doing noddy bread and butter work supporting my manager over here and taking workload off of him. I now do much more off my own back, have implemented processes, support other departments over here (for my dotted line manager over here) and built great relationships with the people/vendors that we work with over here. On top of that I've helped migrate our day to day 'noddy' work (basically managing content for people to review/approve worldwide) from one platform we started with, to another, and we're just going through another migration. Because of COVID our userbase jumped from approx 5,000 people to over 20,000 and also the migration from one platform to another meant we ended up doing first line support as opposed to the vendor doing it (as discussed in my other thread). COVID also had a big effect on the other part of my role which is supporting projects we have based over here and enabling people to securely WFH which is incredibly complicated when it comes to media transport and security. I'd like to eventually manage people, to take some of the noddy work away, I'd obviously like more money and responsibility but right now it really is the job title that is worrying me. I think half my problem is that I've just grown naturally with the role, and expanded the role. So there's no clear cut I've done XYZ.


So I work in film, and although people dont like to admit it job titles mean a lot. I go out and deal with productions and sometimes I can say one thing and people don't take the blindest bit of notice because of my lowly title. Or I get left off chains because they think the SVP is the decision maker so why bother. I'm in a weird position where I deal with pretty senior people, I'm constantly the lowest 'rank' in some meetings yet often giving the most helpful guidance etc. I dunno. This post is turning into a bit of a rant

Back on topic.. my next step is to write up a deck to convince my dotted line manager (based here, very decent guy who supports his staff, but also hates my boss) that a lot of the additional work I've taken on is for his team and therefore I should be putting some onus on him to argue my case. He used to report to my HOD (my boss's boss) so he has a good relationship there but has previously not wanted to get too involved.

Secondly, I think it's time to throw my boss under the bus. Go back through my performance feedback notes where every year I've said "I'd like to know what to do to get a promotion" and show that he has not done so. Take that to HR, explain my frustrations.


Indeed.

Throwing them under the bus is leaving for a better paid job. With as little warning as possible.

 

[regulus]

The guy above me quit. I got promoted.

 

[OspreyO]

Last time I had to

(I wrote a long spiel about my current role but not sure it is helpful for this conversation, actually. So I removed it.)

I'm getting impatient. Not helpful when I see people breezing on up the ladder. a lot of people who were on the same level as me when I joined the company are now two levels up. So I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong. Admittedly there's no easy answer and it totally depends on your company, your boss, his/her boss etc. But I'm just wondering what I'm not doing. I've written all of the right stuff in my reviews, I've made it clear to my boss I want it, I've taken on more responsibility in my role, I work out of hours when required, I'm helpful to other people and departments, I've networked well within the company. But clearly I'm not doing something. Do people that get a promotion every 2 years sit there and argue with their boss? Do they always threaten to leave for another offer? I know one colleague who produced a whole deck to present, is that expected? Do you always have to go over your boss's head to theirs? Do you have to get allies to fight your corner?

So I guess I'm just asking, what has the process been before you got a recent promotion? Sometimes it feels like other people just sit there, do a decent job and get a promotion after 2 years without even asking.

Edit: Maybe better to reframe the question a little. Let’s say you’ve done everything right, but just can’t quite seem to convince the powers that be that you are worthy of a promotion. Or they are rather useless and won’t fight your corner. How can you force the issue? It makes it harder that I’m here and my boss and department are in the US.

If you can't move forwards through an obstacle you go around it. Which means go sideways into another area of the business or leave.

 

[OspreyO]

Last time I had applied to another area of the busines at the same I applied to my own. So if I didn't get I would have moved. I reckon that's the only reason I got it.

Since then, the organisation hasn't made any effort to hold experience older staff. They've lost a load of experience and business knowledge. Replacing them with new less skilled staff. Causes no end of problems. For me that means I won't make any further progress unless I switch to another unit/dept or leave.

 

[Scam]

Last time I had to

If you can't move forwards through an obstacle you go around it. Which means go sideways into another area of the business or leave.

See now my other half made the point that my dotted line manager (based here, has a big team) is always in need of more head count. We (or rather he) recently had someone go part time and she sort of does a role I’m interested in. He’s an excellent manager, and actually a lot of the benefits I like about my role wouldn’t get lost. In fact some of the “fun stuff” like travelling for work would be probably more likely under him. So there’s that to consider.

Since then, the organisation hasn't made any effort to hold experience older staff. They've lost a load of experience and business knowledge. Replacing them with new less skilled staff. Causes no end of problems. For me that means I won't make any further progress unless I switch to another unit/dept or leave.

Yeah it almost makes it easier when it’s that obvious the company doesn’t care. But in my case the company does promote people, I’m just stuck with a muppet of a boss in my way. On the flip side if his manager leaves in the next 1.5yrs then he probably will, and I’ll be in an excellent position. Frustrating eh.

 

[OspreyO]

If I was you I'd go courting the other manager. Like today. I wouldn't be waiting 1.5yrs.

 

[Orangeade]

(I wrote a long spiel about my current role but not sure it is helpful for this conversation, actually. So I removed it.)

I'm getting impatient. Not helpful when I see people breezing on up the ladder. a lot of people who were on the same level as me when I joined the company are now two levels up. So I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong. Admittedly there's no easy answer and it totally depends on your company, your boss, his/her boss etc. But I'm just wondering what I'm not doing. I've written all of the right stuff in my reviews, I've made it clear to my boss I want it, I've taken on more responsibility in my role, I work out of hours when required, I'm helpful to other people and departments, I've networked well within the company. But clearly I'm not doing something. Do people that get a promotion every 2 years sit there and argue with their boss? Do they always threaten to leave for another offer? I know one colleague who produced a whole deck to present, is that expected? Do you always have to go over your boss's head to theirs? Do you have to get allies to fight your corner?

So I guess I'm just asking, what has the process been before you got a recent promotion? Sometimes it feels like other people just sit there, do a decent job and get a promotion after 2 years without even asking.

Edit: Maybe better to reframe the question a little. Let’s say you’ve done everything right, but just can’t quite seem to convince the powers that be that you are worthy of a promotion. Or they are rather useless and won’t fight your corner. How can you force the issue? It makes it harder that I’m here and my boss and department are in the US.

Sorry I haven't read every reply in this thread so apologies if I have missed something.

If you are saying that you have done your job, and gone above and beyond and have been in the role for 9 years......then something is clearly amiss. Granted I work in a different industry (probably) but certainly from Junior-mid grade experience, promotions tend to happen every couple of years for the able. So I would question exactly what has gone wrong here. Is there actually scope for improvement or are you in dead mans shoes role which whilst it sounds like you are offering value, isn't something that can actually be easily quantified in terms of a "grade" change. Its hard to just give a promotion because a chap helps out different teams. And then this would lead me to say how have you actually developed? Within a 9 year stretch you could be capable of just about everything in a job role so if you're doing the same "role" it sounds like its fairly stagnant.

And this leads on to the most important question. How has this been raised in terms of performance reviews and year objective settings etc? E.g when I first started as an analyst, I asked how I'd make AVP (not senior analyst as I saw that was the trap that people got stuck in as SME). I was told not possible without doing X,Y,Z and thus I commited to doing that so I could "get there". Whilst it's important to have a supportive manager (I didn't, from day one they saw me as a threat because I networked above them far better than they ever could), even without one, I would be insisting on setting objectives that are not a tick box exercise. If you have had no promotions and others have, there has been a huge breakdown in this process. You mention it has been done, but what is the feedback? You failed objectives? There is no room? Simply its brushed over? It has to be a 2 way conversation and it doesn't sound like it has been. Most decent sized companies have a "promotion guide" as to minimum requirements, time in role etc.

How you resolve this problem.....well its January so I think an honest conversation has to be had with your line manager, one which should be fairly robust and challenging. I would also start looking at formalising the "extra" work you have done and go scouting for other jobs that would bring you to the next level. I knew in my example that once I made AVP (which I easily did quicker than anyone else I knew), I didn't want to wait the full cycle again and using all the extra stuff I had learned and done, managed to jump into a stretch role that catapulted me forward and got me into management at same time so the next "promotion cycle" was done at a different level and the next few years bought me to Director grade etc.

And final point I would raise is around replacement. Are you irreplaceable? One of the best things I learned early one is that its harder to move on and up if you're "the guy everyone goes to". I've had multiple people working for me that totally deserve a promotion but which could me a massive headache to replace. Some made a rod for their own back by hoarding knowledge thinking it "kept them safe", others simply were too helpful and nice and thus were always the go to person. When you step up in your role there is a void. The easier that void is to fill the easier you will move. I still remember vividly working with someone who at the time was 10 years older than me. They knew the systems and processes inside out, they knew the people who knew the stuff. And it was a millstone around their neck as no one would ever let them go to something else. Yeah they got their incremental payrises but with the talent that person had, he should have been department director and yet never made the cut!

Sorry this is ramble as I am on a call currently so not much focus, will review later and revise if needed.

 

[Stu999]

Work / office politics is a big pile of poo isn’t it?

 

[Scam]

Sorry this is ramble as I am on a call currently so not much focus, will review later and revise if needed.

Not at all. Appreciate the input and I think you've got some things right. I'm definitely guilting of being the helpful guy that everyone turns to/relies on. Who'd have thunk being "irreplaceable" actually means you never get rewarded for it.. (I wouldnt go as far as saying I'm irreplaceable, but I dont think anyone is)

Work / office politics is a big pile of poo isn’t it?

Yup. You wanna try working with Hollywood execs. It's on another level.

 

[rypt]

And final point I would raise is around replacement. Are you irreplaceable? One of the best things I learned early one is that its harder to move on and up if you're "the guy everyone goes to". I've had multiple people working for me that totally deserve a promotion but which could me a massive headache to replace. Some made a rod for their own back by hoarding knowledge thinking it "kept them safe", others simply were too helpful and nice and thus were always the go to person. When you step up in your role there is a void. The easier that void is to fill the easier you will move. I still remember vividly working with someone who at the time was 10 years older than me. They knew the systems and processes inside out, they knew the people who knew the stuff. And it was a millstone around their neck as no one would ever let them go to something else.

Whilst it's the employee who feels the impact of this, I actually view it as an organisational failing.

Instead of penalising the "go to" people by denying them progression, they should instead be rewarded and given opportunity to build a team so that they can pass on their knowledge onto a team that they lead/manage.

 

[EvilRob]

Whilst it's the employee who feels the impact of this, I actually view it as an organisational failing.

Instead of penalising the "go to" people by denying them progression, they should instead be rewarded and given opportunity to build a team so that they can pass on their knowledge onto a team that they lead/manage.

It's true but most companies are just not going to use their budget to fix things that aren't visibly broken and/or painful at the opportunity cost of investing in some growth area or new project.

 

[Orangeade]

Work / office politics is a big pile of poo isn’t it?

Work as a concept is rubbish and future generations will look back marvel at our ignorance........just like we do at people 100 years ago sending children down mines. However, it is the way of our world right now and I learned from a young age not to hold too much pride about it. The world will keep on turning with or without you and I've seen too many examples of people "having principle" for something that is stupid.

Not at all. Appreciate the input and I think you've got some things right. I'm definitely guilting of being the helpful guy that everyone turns to/relies on. Who'd have thunk being "irreplaceable" actually means you never get rewarded for it.. (I wouldnt go as far as saying I'm irreplaceable, but I dont think anyone is)

Yup. You wanna try working with Hollywood execs. It's on another level.

Unfortunately it really just isn't fair sometimes in life. On plus side you can still solve the problem!

Whilst it's the employee who feels the impact of this, I actually view it as an organisational failing.

Instead of penalising the "go to" people by denying them progression, they should instead be rewarded and given opportunity to build a team so that they can pass on their knowledge onto a team that they lead/manage.

It fundamentally is an organisational failing for not using talent efficiently, but the reality is the day to day slog of life is usually fairly different. You have line managers who frankly are not actually leaders but promoted because of seniority, age, luck, no one else etc. These people tend to then use whatever they can to keep afloat without a regard for doing maybe what's right. And we are all guilty of that. I look back now and remember really leaning on some of my managers with punishing targets and expectations which they met and were rewarded for. I bet you a dollar to a dime though they were managing that expectation efficiently and not anything "Wischiwaschi".

 

[Freefaller]

Changed jobs and applied for more senior roles. I've never been promoted "in-house" so to speak. I like to build up experience, learn, fail (and learn from it), build a portfolio and seek the next opportunity to put those skills to the test. It does mean I haven't been in a job for more than 3-4 years, but I feel that works for me.

 

[rypt]

It's true but most companies are just not going to use their budget to fix things that aren't visibly broken and/or painful at the opportunity cost of investing in some growth area or new project.

Agreed there - but that's also I think why so much of the Western world is tanking in terms of productivity, as the corporate culture we have is just shocking when it comes to actually making the company even more successful... too often it's the wrong character traits that are promoted, leading to negative impacts in the long term.

 

[Hutch]

Tbh in my current place I just said I wanted a promotion and they agreed I deserved it.

The other side of it though is it didn't come with the kind of pay rise I would get if I took that role elsewhere (vs quite a lot of job ads I get sent) and I am fairly certain they are paying people starting in the same role (perhaps with more experience to be fair) more.

I really dislike the whole job application process thing but I do think I will be moving on soon.

 

[Removed User 345456]

Belittled everyone in lower positions and only slept with the attractive female co-workers and fat shamed everyone else. Worked hard.

 

[Orangeade]

Changed jobs and applied for more senior roles. I've never been promoted "in-house" so to speak. I like to build up experience, learn, fail (and learn from it), build a portfolio and seek the next opportunity to put those skills to the test. It does mean I haven't been in a job for more than 3-4 years, but I feel that works for me.

This is by far the most efficient route. Done this myself and I look back now knowing i wouldn't have gotten half as far otherwise. But it gets harder the more senior you go as they want to see you commit to a medium/long term strategy if you are given the remit.

Still reckon I've got one more jump left in myself.

Tbh in my current place I just said I wanted a promotion and they agreed I deserved it.

The other side of it though is it didn't come with the kind of pay rise I would get if I took that role elsewhere (vs quite a lot of job ads I get sent) and I am fairly certain they are paying people starting in the same role (perhaps with more experience to be fair) more.

I really dislike the whole job application process thing but I do think I will be moving on soon.

this is the best time of year (well actually it was a few months ago when budgeting was done) to be having such conversations. Go to a good recruiter, do some research and get a realistic figure of worth.

depending how corporate your place is maybe there are known "salary bands" so you can see your range?

I presume you have raised this to your manager before? Anyone you can talk to suss out salary?

Belittled everyone in lower positions and only slept with the attractive female co-workers and fat shamed everyone else. Worked hard.

Haha. If only there were more ladies in senior management back then. Nowadays it's a changed beast...but also unfair on a lot of people!

 

[Removed User 345456]

Haha. If only there were more ladies in senior management back then. Nowadays it's a changed beast...but also unfair on a lot of people!

Oh I wouldn't discriminate if they weren't management haha! I treat everyone the same

 

[Hutch]

this is the best time of year (well actually it was a few months ago when budgeting was done) to be having such conversations. Go to a good recruiter, do some research and get a realistic figure of worth.

depending how corporate your place is maybe there are known "salary bands" so you can see your range?

I presume you have raised this to your manager before? Anyone you can talk to suss out salary?

It is annual review time so yes I can have this discussion soon.

I think the issue is that the company whilst not pleading poverty is not doing so well so they will argue against providing increases on that basis. Last year I got 3% and that was one of the higher increases I heard about, given inflation increases it makes my effective pay quite a lot lower than it was over the last few years