2007 Japanese GP - Race 15/17

Chrisp7 said:
The FIA didnt apologise for any fault on their part, Ferrari 'supposedly' didnt receive the email on time, now if all the other teams received this email in time, it was either Ferraris fault with their email or Ferrari ignoring the info sent to them. As a result of this the FIA decided to remove any possible doubt in the future by hand delivering this type of info - end of.
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Hand delivering the notes will cause all sorts of other troubles. They are going to need 11 (next year 12) runners who can deliver the note the right person at exactly the same time so that no team can claim that they were disadvantaged by receiving critial information after others and so having less time to prepare.

The electronic system currently in use has been in place for several years (and working well) and is used to avoid situations that can occur when trying to manually deliver information. Ferrari probably were trying a fast one, which backfired on them.
 
Duke said:
Seems a bit extreme to do that, a simple overtake along the straight would have been ok.
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Why draw attention to themselves?

Think about it - Ferrari have already won the contructors title. Hence, there is no reason for him to even finish. The other option is to use Massa to take out Lewis. If they do this however, they risk being thrown out of the championship themselves.

The safest way to allow Raikonnen to score an extra point, was to get Massa to have an extra pit-stop.
 
sunama said:
Why draw attention to themselves?

Think about it - Ferrari have already won the contructors title. Hence, there is no reason for him to even finish. The other option is to use Massa to take out Lewis. If they do this however, they risk being thrown out of the championship themselves.

The safest way to allow Raikonnen to score an extra point, was to get Massa to have an extra pit-stop.
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Why does it have to be an extra pit-stop. Kimi had stopped twice for fuel, up to this point Massa had only stopped once, so its possible that he had gone as far as possible on a full tank and so had to splash and dash.
 
I watched the video after reading the article, I expected some terribly sharp braking manouver like he did behind the first safety car (which was a bit OTT)
In the video it looks like all he did was take a much wider line and ease off the throttle, it shows Vettels stupidity more than anything.
 
Schumi did the same thing a few years ago, also the excessive slowing down after the safety car was gone before starting the lap was highly annoying and really did not help him at all.
 
nothing wrong with it if u ask me, like someone says, he just took a wide line, not his fault webber wasnt paying attention.
 
Its the TEAM as a whole Ron has to think about - and I cant see Alonso' selfish attitude throughout the season let alone during the Paris hearing (where he didnt bother turning up) going for him in any way.

Drivers still need to talk to their boss, and Ron has admitted they havent spoken at all for weeks

It cant last into next season (think about JM and Chelsea being very similar)

I think Hamilton will be partnered by Kovalinan (appologies about spelling lol) in a Renault swap deal or some youngster like Rosberg

for the benefit of the team data needs to be swapped, and it just isnt happening at the moment

I actually think Alonso could still have some effect on next year's Renault (or any other car from a big enough team) althought 08/09 he will have a much bigger influence without doubt.

Im not sure that Renault in one winter can suddenly leap all the way to the front - they can certainly make it a lot closer to Pole/Winning and even fluke a few results but main two teams will still be McLaren and Ferrari next year (unless the FIA go completely overboard examining the McLaren and really caise problems - which of course they NEVER do to McLaren!!!)
 
What Hamilton did was take a wider line. However, he was still approximately the same distance away from the safety car as he was before he went wide. The problem was that Mark Webber realised that he was getting too close to the safety car (and might go past Hamilton) so he broke hard. Vettel, who was following Webber closely, wasnt ready for this hard brake and smashed into Webber.

Personally, I think Webber and Vettel are to blame for the incident, though Vettel really shouldve been concentrating. He was far too close to Webber and Webber was far too close to Hamilton. In those sorts of conditions, common sense dictates that Hamilton could not have taken off and left Webber for dead (due to the safety car he was following) and on seeing this Webber shouldve backed off and given himself a nice long braking zone, should Lewis brake suddenly. The same goes for Vettel (though Vettel has very little experience, so could be forgiven for not allowing for a safe braking distance). Webber and Vettel shouldve closed down the distances, when the safety car was ready to pull off.

In summary, if both Webber and Vettel had given themselves a longer braking distance, this accident would almost certainly not have happened.
 
FrankJH said:
for the benefit of the team data needs to be swapped, and it just isnt happening at the moment
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I was under the impression that data is being swapped, but somewhat, begrudgingly. In fact Lewis admitted as much in the race before last, that in 2 races, he and Fernando started with the same set-up and then as the weekend progressed they both went in different directions (which quite often happens); a result of which was that Hamilton seemed to be about 0.2s/lap off of Alonso's pace.

They are sharing data. Not because they want to, though.
 
I am quite concerned for Hamilton, it certainly looks like enough to be penalised, (Especially if Ferrari *ahem* the FIA have anything to do with it)
 
What I still don't get is why they kept going on about a 2hr time limit on this race. AFAIK, ALL Formula 1 races have a 2 hour time limit, and this race finished just outside of it, so if they'd have ended one lap earlier, not much would have changed. The German race, with the rain, and the suspension of the race for 10 or so minutes, took 2 hours and 6 minutes, over-running the 2 hour time limit.

FIA's regulations for the 2007 championship state:
41.4 - Whilst the race is suspended, neither the the race, nor the timekeeping system will stop.

Why did this rule not apply to the Nurburgring then? There would have been a different race winner had the race been stopped at 2 hours, iirc Massa would have been declared the winner.

I might sound like a total Ferrari fanboy by pointing this out, but when the 2003 Brazilian GP was red-flagged for Alonso's crash, Raikkonen was declared the winner, but I was quick to point out that Fisichella had actually started the next lap, so the count-back rule worked in his favour, and he would've won the race. A week later, they overturned the result! I did write a letter to Jordan at the time, but i'm sure they'd have figured it out themselves. :p
 
If he gets sent back 10 places, it will certainly liven up the championship for the next 2 races. Surely the FIA wouldnt do something like that, just to make the last 2 races more exciting. Would they?
 
I really don't think this video is as incriminating as people think.

After the race Webber wasn't annoyed at Hamilton, he was annoyed at Vettel - if anyone could see what Hamilton was doing it would have been Webber. This coupled with Vettels' story that he was watching Hamilton before the accident and glanced back in front a fraction of a second before the accident. Surely with Vettel knowing that Hamilton was slowing down, as he said he was watching him at the time, it wouldn't be out of the bounds of posibility that the 2nd place chap would slow too, as they are supposed to do! there for he should have been slowing down also.

I still put the incident down to Vettel, I don't think he deserves his 10 place penalty due to conditions/circumstances.
 
Don't forget that in todays F1, all any of the drivers has to do is cry wolf for the smallest thing and the FIA immediately investigates. Kind of like Massa and Alonso at Monza last year. Massa was nowhere near Alonso, cried and got Alonso penalised, so i wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton gets penalised for this even though its clear its not his fault from that video.

Webber and Vettel are to blame for that accident, its clear, they were too close to Hamilton so when Hamilton braked (it wasnt even sharp, he just slowed down ona wider line) they ran out of room. Webber should have been far enough behind to brake to prevent him from passing and Vettel should have done the same so they had plenty of room to manuver.

Look at the gap between all the other drivers on the track behind them in that video, yet Webber and Vettel were so close to each other and Hamilton, they gave themselves no room at all for Hamilton to slowdown or speed up etc... Sharp acceleration and braking is always done behind a safety car so the drivers can keep the tyres and brakes hot, this is to actually improve safety otherwise the cars would just slide off the track in a corner due to cold tyres or be unable to brake properly and either run into the back of someone or have someone run into you. Vettel can be excused a bit for having a lack of experience. Things like that happen to all people new to a racing format at some point. But Webber is highly experienced, he should have known better than to sit right behind hamilton who was right behind the Safety Car giving Hamilton no room to keep his tyres and brakes warm hence why he pulled off line and slowed a bit.

The exact same thing happens when the safety car comes in and the leader bunches everyone up. But no collisions ever happen then do they and at those times they are feet apart, not several metres. Just a case of Webber and Vettel not paying enough attention.

In fact, Vettel couldn't have been watching Hamilton, if he was he would have slowed down due to knowing you get a drive through penalty if you pass under the safety car. Vettel would have slowed down and Webber would have carried on and gone past and got the penalty. The whole thing just stinks of Vettels in-experience and Webber not paying attention and them wanting to pin the blame on Hamilton rather than their own screw ups.

Thats my opinion.
 
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