I don't know the exact rule but I always thought it meant you couldn't overtake and keep the place, not that you can't go past the car in front by accident then let them retake the place again, in the BBC article Alonso even says he overtook Hamilton 2 or 3 times so if thats the case and the rule is you can't overtake at all then shouldn't he be being investigated to?
2007 Japanese GP - Race 15/17
- Thread starter rpstewart
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This is correct. In the interests of safety, if you can justify that you "overtook" or went ahead of the car in front of you (while the SC was on the track) for safety reasons, and the car/team that you overtook dont protest, then all will be generally fine. As long as you can explain your actions and relate them in some way to safety, its almost impossible for the FIA to reprimand that driver. Also, you must not gain a place by your action (The last point being very important).
IMO, Hamilton has nothing to worry about. He was very very close to the safety car (SC). It was seriously wet. In fact the conditions were so bad, that some drivers were pretty angry that the race even took place! While following the SC, Hamilton will argue that he got a little close to the SC and needed to brake and go wide, to avoid spinning and not cause a major accident and endager his own and other drivers' safety. Hence, he went wide. No one told Webber or Vettel that they had to drive so close to Hamilton. In fact, only an inexperienced driver would do something like that. Vettel - I can understand; but Webber - he really should know better.
When Alonso was behind Hamilton and the SC was about to pull off, Hamilton, in effect, brake tested Alonso, which is not sporting and endangered the safety of the following cars. However, consider that Alonso is in the same team and has a huge ego, whereby he is the best driver in F1 and if ANYONE CAN DEAL WITH HAMILTON, ITS ALONSO. It would make Alonso look like some sort of amateur if he went and complained. For those reasons, although Alonso could've complained, he didnt. In any case, he went off for reasons totally unrelated to any other car/team/driver.
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Yee ha looks like Stepny is stirring again
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7027318.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7027318.stm
aaaannnndd.... The cheat has to stick his nose in...
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_2778580,00.html
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_2778580,00.html
Absolutely no way in hell that was Hamilton's fault. If it was, I would quite happily accept that he needs to learn to ease off on the Safety Car antics, but beyond a "racing incident", there should be no penalty. If he's doing something wrong, the drivers need to discuss it in the briefing, and that's the end of it.
If anyone needs to get a telling off, it's Webber for sitting so close behind Lewis. I had even said to my Dad just before the crash "He's getting far too close, why not just drop back a little?", and when I saw two cars off, I instantly assumed he had rear ended Hamilton.
Webber needs to shut his mouth, as I don't think I've heard him do anything but ***** recently.
If anyone needs to get a telling off, it's Webber for sitting so close behind Lewis. I had even said to my Dad just before the crash "He's getting far too close, why not just drop back a little?", and when I saw two cars off, I instantly assumed he had rear ended Hamilton.
Webber needs to shut his mouth, as I don't think I've heard him do anything but ***** recently.
That argument is flawed watching this clip..
http://www.autosport.com:80/news/report.php/id/62978
He doesnt run wide due to speed. If he was going too fast he wouldve lost it in the turn in to the r/h part of the bend. He turns in well enough without losing grip to the r/h section then chooses not to turn into the l/h turn of the S.
He takes a much tighter line than the safety car, which doesnt suggest he had a problem with grip.
So why back off that much in those conditions and visabilty. Nothing will happen but he should be talked to about it.
People banging on about the FIA and Ferrari after Macca really need to get a grip. If they hadve wanted to nail Lewis they couldve done it after nailing the team. They had in their eyes proved the team to be cheats so where well within their rights to easily have taken his points.
They didnt because they didnt want to upset the legions of new fans they think he has brought to the sport.
If they didnt do it then, why do you think they would do it now.
Perhaps Hamiltons move wasnt to be expected, but surely as the rules state your supposed to keep reasonable distance between the car infront of you.
Its no different on the road! If you go up the rear of someone its because you were not paying the corect attention or had not left the correct amount of space to stop. Its not Hamiltons fault at all! They are clutching at straws because they messed up. Alonso is quick to jump on the back of it because it might be one of the few chances he has left.
Hopefully the FIA will see sense.
Its no different on the road! If you go up the rear of someone its because you were not paying the corect attention or had not left the correct amount of space to stop. Its not Hamiltons fault at all! They are clutching at straws because they messed up. Alonso is quick to jump on the back of it because it might be one of the few chances he has left.
Hopefully the FIA will see sense.
I dunno reading the pitpass article
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33035
It seems he was playing games with alonso in the first instance and the bit I dont quite get is the 5 car lengths. Pitpass states the Lewis has to keep within 5 car lengths but then adds that Lewis nearly overtook the safety car. The way they have written the article suggests they think he has to keep atleast 5 cars away but nearly overtook.
But the rule within 5 lengths suggests to me thats fine. Otherwise it would say keep 5 lengths away
"I also overtook Lewis two or three times, so it seems that we all agree," Alonso said.
"It's difficult to know what the car in front of you needs to do.
"I didn't see the race on TV but, hearing the comments of the drivers, they seemed to overtake the car in front a couple of times and had to make some unnecessary manoeuvres to avoid the cars in front."
In the sentence quoted, Alonso is directing his attention to Hamilton. However, the next 2, he is speaking generally.
Personally, I think his words are being taken out of context. For someone of his ability to attempt to try and get pts taken away from Hamilton should be beneath his dignity. Alonso almost certainly believes he is the best and by that token should have belief in his own ability to haul in his young, inexperienced teammate, by simply out-pacing him; and not by other (whistle-blowing) means.
I would hate to see Alonso in anything other than a McLaren next year. For sure, his rivalry with Hamilton and the fact that he doesnt speak to most of his team has added a lot of spice to this season, that could be missing next year, if he is not in McLaren.
...
The way they have written the article suggests they think he has to keep atleast 5 cars away but nearly overtook.
But the rule within 5 lengths suggests to me thats fine. Otherwise it would say keep 5 lengths away
I believe that the leading car must keep within 5 car lengths of the safety car, once all the cars are in line. However, he must not overtake the safety car. The safety car itself will be driven at a sensible steady pace, so in theory it shouldnt be difficult for a driver behind to keep within this 5 car-length distance.
Hehehe.
Personally, what I would love to see is next year:
Alonso and Hamilton have a HUGE bust-up.
They then continue to **** each other off in the press. Openly.
Ron Dennis isnt talking to Alonso, only a few of his race mechanics/engineers are and even they dont particularly like the guy.
Alonso is hell-bent on winning and prepared to goto any lengths to beat Hamilton.
Alonso and Hamilton are leading the title race - 1 and 2, respectively.
Final race of the season, Alonso has a racing accident with Hamilton.
Alonso wins the title.
He then goes on to berate the entire McLaren team, publicly, explaining how he has been treated (badly) by them. But despite this he won the title.
He explains how he wouldnt drive for McLaren even if his life depended upon it.
How's that...?
Nice to see a drastic change of opinion on this board.
As a few years ago there was a similar incident between MS and a lapped Montoya at Monaco. Then according to this board MS was at fault for warming his brakes while behind the safety car but now Hamilton is innocent for warming his brakes.
When the incident happened, Hamilton looked to be more than five car lengths from the safety car.
It would make the championship interesting for the last two races as Hamilton would be two points ahead of Alonso and five ahead of Kimi.
As a few years ago there was a similar incident between MS and a lapped Montoya at Monaco. Then according to this board MS was at fault for warming his brakes while behind the safety car but now Hamilton is innocent for warming his brakes.
When the incident happened, Hamilton looked to be more than five car lengths from the safety car.
It would make the championship interesting for the last two races as Hamilton would be two points ahead of Alonso and five ahead of Kimi.
Hamilton could claim he saw what looked to be a potential and then actual crash going to happen and say he was avoiding it
and promptly announces a new 5 yr deal and that Ron is his real father
Meanwhile Mad Max decrees that all McLaren staff and equipment have to transfer to Ferrari and Mclaren have to use Ferrari staff and equipment, however this plan still goes wrong and McLaren win again.
Again, how can he? He takes a tighter line in than the safety car. That suggests the speed he was carrying was not an issue.
All that information will be handed over ny mclaren anyway. They will have to show how and when he was braking.