Royal Mail Strike Action

[todd flanders]

Well, that was incredibly rude, and unnecessary. It's a public forum and anyone who abides by the site rules is able to express their opinion.

The wonderful thing about freedom of speech is that it lets everyone have a say, including those who don't agree with what you think. no-one's told you to stop posting, have the good courtesy to respect that others aren't whinging at you for posting what they may consider to be drivel, so please extend other posters the same courtesy they are giving you.

Who asked you?

 

[Dolph]

Do you not think they are trying to achieve what they think what is best for their members? Preying on greed? I wouldn't be happy with 2.5% either. Its also more than that, they are also trying to protect their pension rights. Future business model? Imo, I cannot see Royal Mail lasting another 5 years before collapse

Why do you think they need to change their ways of working? You've answered your own point with your belief that RM is going down the tubes. That's exactly why they need to make changes, and why the union getting in the way is not working in the interests of their members. Willingness to accept some change is necessary, and a good union would work with both the employers and employees to ensure the future survivability of the business as well as try to understand the need for change and negotiate the best terms within the above.

Not just sit there and go "we aren't changing, we're striking".

Sorry I fail to understand that. Very little choice? Well.. what else can you do? Hold a tea morning? They did have choice, vote yes or vote no. Even with a mandate of a yes vote, that does not mean that member has to strike even if they voted that way. I fail to see what is militant about trade union activity, nor out casting of those who wish to continue working. It is their choice. How can you be outcast if you continue working and are not a CWU worker? I suspect that you have neither trade union experience or ever visited a picket. I supported a CWU picket back in the 90's when I had more affiliation. I will admit one thing, the postal workers are a rabble bunch especially on a picket though!

The union offered two choices (according to the rational post worker in this thread). Accept the deal or strike for no changes at all and more money. That's somewhat akin to me offering to drill a hole in your head or give you cake. The deal, as it stood originally, was not great, however instead of negotiating for a better one, trying to understand what could be done, what could not and what it's members want, the union gave it's members very little choice, knowing what the end result would be and getting their desired strike.

As for trade union experience, I've had enough to know a bad thing when I see it.

The employer calls the shots, not the other way round. Unions tend to be reactive or proactive, rarely the instigators when it comes to derisory pay offers (no reference to CWU at present, but TU in general.

You're wrong, trade unions and employers share equal responsibility when both are being equally stubborn, or more when the TU is being unreasonable.

Trade unionism is essential in an era of globalisation and the continuing growth of powerful corporations. Yet trade union rights are constantly undermined and are the subject of steady erosion. The British government is regularly found to be in breach of ILO Conventions on trade union rights; as well as in breach of the European Social Charter of 1961 by the committee on Social Rights. It is not just the ILO. In February 1997, the Council of Ministers, the highest body of the Council of Europe, condemned Britain on the same grounds for breach of the European Social Charter 1961. The UK has been found in breach of these provisions consistently since 1989.

Trade unionism isn't essential at all in it's current, political form. The same benefits can be achieved without union dues, political campaigning and heavy-handed, militant behaviour. The company I work for has a very good employee consulatation system, and therefore has no need for a union, and every time the CWU tries to get involved, it's always to protect the stupid, the lazy and the feckless from the consequences of their actions.

Britain has been condemned for years for having employment laws which breach the international laws which it has ratified; Britain remains an international law breaker.

Britian is sensible, the unions still have too much power and influence IMO.

The substance of today’s law however, is far removed and much weaker than the position established in 1906 in the Trades disputes Act. The new Bill Employment relations bill 1999 fails to rectify the Tories outlawing of all sympathy action.

Good, sympathy action or secondary striking is totally unacceptable in any civilised society.

However, trying to explain the savage deconstruction of trade union rights during the Conservative years of the 80’s and 90’s would probably be foolhardy considering.

It would be downright insane, a return to the 1970's is not in any way benefical to anyone.

There are two essentials of British law which explain why employers can dismiss strikers. First, there is no right to strike in Britain; second, all forms of industrial action are a fundamental breach of contract by the worker.

The International Labour Organisation has many, many times condemned these two characteristics as being profound breaches of ILO Convention 87. Last whenever (cannot recollect) the ILO Conference, with the support of the British Government delegation, adopted a Declaration of Fundamental Principles. First of these is freedom of association which, the ILO holds, includes the right to strike.

Those two fundamentals are sensible, practical solutions to a deliberate breach of contract by an employee given the encouragement of a political grouping who demands fees in order to represent people.

No you are right, that wouldn't stop the Unions. Even though Labour has tried to distance itself from them, they are still a fundamental pillar of their history and still a great financial assistance to the party (not my personal view, my Union has no political affiliation. Nor could I comment on CWU). I would like to stress that from my experience at branch and national level with the PCS Union, that strike action is really the last resort. We have had several ballots (successfully I may add) for action short of strike.

Well, I think both unions and corporations should not be able to financially support political parties, it's yet another example of why unions are not in things for their members.

A good union I can see the value of, the problem is that these days none of the large unions seem to qualify. They are all into political posturing and pointscoring instead of working with the industries they represent to ensure both fair compensation and future viability.

 

[Dolph]

Who asked you?

Public forum again, you post in a public place, anyone is allowed to respond to it.

 

[todd flanders]

Public forum again, you post in a public place, anyone is allowed to respond to it.

Respones like yours above are welcome, it's well thought out and has some basis to it, whether I agree or disagree with your point.

The other guy however makes me cringe and should not post in a thread where he doesn't clue what it's all about....

 

[DarkShadow]

Respones like yours above are welcome, it's well thought out and has some basis to it, whether I agree or disagree with your point.

The other guy however makes me cringe and should not post in a thread where he doesn't clue what it's all about....

Again, that is your opinion after all.

 

[Lopéz]

Wonder if I could send an invoice to the CWU for my loss of earnings as a photographer?

Unlikely - most couriers do not cover consequential loss, and the Union certainly won't as you have no contract with them.

At TNT by 4pm today we had taken over 25,000 calls. That's an insane level. The immense amount of additional freight we carried was just too much for the network to physically handle, so there were delays and capacity problems at all depots. Byfleet carried 50% more freight today than they normally do on a Friday. You just can't make contingency plans for that sort of increase in traffic.

I expect the same has happened to most of the other UK couriers over the last couple of days, I'll be glad when this strike action is over.

 

[Deleted User 234324]

easy solution, replace em all with machines, atleast they dont strike or whine like babies.

 

[MumboJumbo]

I'm sorry when I quoted you post, you must have edited it and added to it! which you have done.

The edit i put in was before you even posted and then you edited yours about 10 minutes after. Do not try and twist things.

You have edited this one again

You need to open your eyes get into the real world of working and you will see not all is rosy, pensions are a good example of this, can you honestly say if you worked for a said company for a long time & just about to enter retirement then everything changes, would you be annoyed & __ what would you do? Just leave or speak out?

The edit you are pointing out was again before any one posted.

Well, that was incredibly rude, and unnecessary. It's a public forum and anyone who abides by the site rules is able to express their opinion.

The wonderful thing about freedom of speech is that it lets everyone have a say, including those who don't agree with what you think. no-one's told you to stop posting, have the good courtesy to respect that others aren't whinging at you for posting what they may consider to be drivel, so please extend other posters the same courtesy they are giving you.

Thanks.

The other guy however makes me cringe and should not post in a thread where he doesn't clue what it's all about....

I make you cringe because i believe the fact that it is wrong to try screw up their pensions but other then that see nothing wrong with the royal mail workings as a business?


As far as i can see it i am thinking logicaly.

Their demands:

We want pensions (totaly fair and just).

We want to be paid more

We dont want you to cut down on postmen

So they want to be paid more and keep all the staff? Logicaly thinking for a busniess if they want to be paid more and they don't need all these staff, whats wrong with firing them?

They complain they arn't being paid enough... find a new job?


None of you answered my questions you just attacked me.

I said:

"Please explain to me if i am so wrong that these postmen are so terribly poor that they cant afford to live and there is no other jobs in the world they could possibly go to.

What am i wrong about?"

 

[MumboJumbo]

Sorry forgot to answer this question

"You need to open your eyes get into the real world of working and you will see not all is rosy, pensions are a good example of this, can you honestly say if you worked for a said company for a long time & just about to enter retirement then everything changes, would you be annoyed & __ what would you do? Just leave or speak out?"


But ill make a new post in case any of you try and say im editing just after you post or what ever your trying to point out.


Ive already said how i think what they are doing with pensions is wrong. But as im trying to say. its illogical to expect to get paid more and demand no more people get fired.

And going on strike is likely to make them not get fired?

Going on strike makes royal mail look bad and therefore less likely to be used by the public and therefore they are less likely to need as many postmen because they dont get as many parcels. So therefore they need to fire more people.



Surely you can at least see where im trying to come from even if you dont agree with it?

 

[Fothsn]

Dave, why would I lie about an edit, do you not think I could have gotten a drink just before I hit the reply button? Twist things come on! I aren’t that type of person.

None of you answered my questions you just attacked me.

I said:

"Please explain to me if i am so wrong that these postmen are so terribly poor that they cant afford to live and there is no other jobs in the world they could possibly go to.

What am i wrong about?"

I dont get that question sorry

 

[shifty_uk]

I can't believe this! Due to the strike, I can't recieve my new bank card/pin(should have gotten it today), or even the new pin for my existing account. I have no access to money, unless I go into the bank and ask for it.

 

[todd flanders]

Sorry forgot to answer this question

"You need to open your eyes get into the real world of working and you will see not all is rosy, pensions are a good example of this, can you honestly say if you worked for a said company for a long time & just about to enter retirement then everything changes, would you be annoyed & __ what would you do? Just leave or speak out?"


But ill make a new post in case any of you try and say im editing just after you post or what ever your trying to point out.


Ive already said how i think what they are doing with pensions is wrong. But as im trying to say. its illogical to expect to get paid more and demand no more people get fired.

And going on strike is likely to make them not get fired?

Going on strike makes royal mail look bad and therefore less likely to be used by the public and therefore they are less likely to need as many postmen because they dont get as many parcels. So therefore they need to fire more people.



Surely you can at least see where im trying to come from even if you dont agree with it?

Was your PC made by Fisher Price?

 

[MumboJumbo]

I can't believe this! Due to the strike, I can't recieve my new bank card/pin(should have gotten it today), or even the new pin for my existing account. I have no access to money, unless I go into the bank and ask for it.

That really sucks. Can you pick it up at the depo? Or is it not even that far.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Sometimes these threads really wind me up.

I'm now 10 years in Royal Mail, and some of the attitudes of some people on the forum to a job that I do bloody well gets to me. I've not taken a sick day in 6 years now, I'm going in today, I'll be covering at least 4 jobs on my shift (on a normal day I'll cover 2 duties if need be without hesitation) - and I've been doing tis every strike day so far.

Because of this, I've had my bike tyres slashed, and felt pretty low about things in general.

Here's the biggest fact going - when RM offered the initial pay deal, the CWU turned it down flat. We were not balloted on if we would accept the pay deal, we were balloted for strike action - we have never been asked on if we want to accept the current pay deal.

Some of the things that RM are pushing through to me are a mistake, such as flexible working hours. In essence, if its a quiet day, I can be sent home early, the hours lost can be put into an hour bank and then I can be asked to change my shift patterns at any time - that worries me. I chose this job because of its hours structure, and have also declined more management time because I enjoy the structure of a set shift. This also means that as a man with no children, I can be used more to cover a family man as he can theoretically use his kids as an excuse to opt out of flexible hours.

Am I striking because of this - NO

BTW, I am a CWU member and an ex union rep. So please consider the posties that are crossing the picket line today before you make pretty harsh comments such as those above. Lazy? Thanks for that.

so why are you going in ? You don`t seem to happy about the strings attached to the pay deal ?

 

[MrGrumpy]

hahaha, my job is just has hard as yours and i spend just as much time on my feet (i'm not a shelf stacker, i was for 6 months before doing my knee), so get a grip if you think my job is so totally easier than yours, and i get paid poor wages compared with a posty, but we don't complain, we get on with it, because some money is better than no money (btw, i've been solid at the same job for over two years now, gone through my fair share of problems including losing wages to the incompetance of the pay role staff, losing out on holidays because they can't afford to let me have them off, over 40 hour weeks when we were short staffed, damaging my knee due to the hard conditions etc etc etc, don't try to lecture me you arogant berk)

so you find that acceptable then ? would you want to do something about it or just forget about, thinking well at least i get paid ? More fool you if you do no wonder folk get walked over in this day and age !!

 

[firewallblocked]

25 hours per week! Lazy buggers Time to stop complaining and to get a 2nd job me thinks.

I think you will find most postman have two jobs, but a split job can be handy when you have kids etc.

 

[firewallblocked]

I know one of the van drivers who delivers parcels in my area was given a warning for being off work for 2.5 weeks after an operation on his knee. He had not had 1 day sick in 10 years. Another postie had a hernia operation and was off for 5 weeks, he also got a warning. Royal Mail now can be pretty tough if your ill.

 

[firewallblocked]

Royal Mail never paid anything into their pension fund for over 13 years! the government spent the money most likely on schools, hospitals etc. If they can close hospitals it won't be long before they scrap the postal service and it will cost 2-3 times what it costs now. Should TNT or DHL say take over don't expect charity from them like with Royal Mail they will charge you the REAL cost of posting a letter. Better start saving now!!

 

[firewallblocked]

pffft, those warnings mean nothing. If you genuinely have a problem they won't have an effect, it's just for leeches who say they can't work. Eventually they can get rid of them.

One postie who had been ill previously was dismissed after falling over a christmas tree left lying across the path by a customer, causing injury to her knee. Although it wasn't her fault having been ill before meant she was sacked.

 

[Mekrel]

Was your PC made by Fisher Price?

I can tell you something for free. After being a member of these boards for four years, I've seen loads of new posters that share the same ideology of yours that it's fine to insult other members like you have done twice in this thread.

It then doesn't surprise me to see the permmaban status under their alias' a few months down the line.

I would suggest you read the FAQ on how to conduct yourself.