Motorists vs Cyclists

Old Wino, you had some interesting points, so I decided to adress them in a seperate point.

1. Time - see below
2. Loads of people live beyond pedaling distance for work
3. It rains - often
4. Not enough money spent on allowing for bike lanes
5. Not enough incentive for cyclists (should be VAT free)
6. Arriving at work sweating like a boxer = start to the day
7. Narrow roads + lorries + BMW drivers = danger

Time:
If it's just a measly 30 seconds quicker by car people will drive. That's because people don't have time anymore. Ever heard of anyone 'leisurely' driving home? of course not.
Going home is like the beginning of the simpsons - everyone is busting a blood vessel behind the wheel so as not to:

a. Miss that TV program (how many seconds after entering the door is it before it's turned on - less than 30?)
b. Be late for little Britneys chainsaw juggling lesson
c. Be late for little Davids footie practice
d. Miss the deals at the supermarket/Shopping centre
e. Miss getting a locker at the gym (for those 1st 2 weeks in January that you actually go)
f. Get a table at a good eaterie (cos it's waaaay quicker than buying all the ingredients and heating/putting them together for yourself)

And the most obvious reason of all - people point and laugh at you on your bike at Maccy D's drivethrough

1) Time is a fair one. Depending on the topology of the landscape, the conditions of the road, your own fitness, cycling can be fast, depending on the scales involved. Everyone goes to work at roughly the same time, so you are either going to fight as a commuter on a train, or fight as a commuter on roads. For some, "out in the sticks" where things are more spread out, and you have to travel further, a car will be a better deal. But certainly around cities, where congestion is high, 5 minutes late will equal a 40 minute queue.

2) Living beyond peddling distance is fair enough. However, if you are living and working in a city, even from the outskirts, it is not so far, again based on your own conditions etc. "Peddling distance" is a relative term.

3) It rains. I get wet cycling. No biggy. Some people don't like rain. But unless you are carrying your work in a paper bag, its not likely to affect you too much. Buy a coat/hat.

4) Very true... we have poor infrastructure in this country concerning bicycle lanes - and often, they just carve up a piece of the roads, restricting traffic even more. However, cycling on the side of the road is preferable to going by car on congested roads *any* time, except when cars are almost clinging to the far left hand side.

5) Well, incentives aren't necessary in my opinion. I have already saved myself about £600 this year from cycling to work instead of taking the train. I could walk, it would be a 45 minute walk. But instead its an 18 minute cycle, and its getting faster, despite being heavily congested.

6) Well, this is an issue. At the moment, businesses expect you to handle yourself, and often provide the most limited personal space at work (e.g. a toilet and washbasin) simply because people do most things at home. If you came to work and brought a spare set of clothes to change into, it wouldn't be such an issue. It *is* an issue at the moment, if you are on your way to work, and somehow manage to spill coffee etc all down your front, etc etc.

7. Narrow roads + lorries + BMW drivers = danger
True. But narrow roads not designed for lorries may be an issue to take up with the lorry drivers, and more people cycling = less people in BMWs.

As far as I can see here, the only people who are winning in all of this, is the car companies. And all of our problems are "tragedy of the commons" type issues.
 
I'd be guessing but I think the spelling is what is amusing here, imbecile is the correct version.

Yes I gathered that, but I fail to see how funny that is?

Here's a good one for ya, I've juts witnessed my dog crapping in my garden, you find that funny too huh?
 
Shoseki said:
EDIT : And just because you pay tax for something, doesn't mean you own it. You pay tax towards the buses, you still can't get on without paying (although thats another thread, I am all for the creation of a free public transport system, but unfortunately it needs to be managed properly).


Come again?

Since when were bus companies anything other than privately owned?

So, I should pay for Mr Kime down the road to drive around in a ******* great big Bentley because he owns a bus company but i cant have a car?

I pay tax towards something, too right i own it, its called society i dont buy a dog to bark myself.
I pay tax to use the road, i'll sodding use it.
I pay tax for the police you WILL come when i call you.

Its people standing by and saying oh its just no good that has lead this country to the sad state of afairs where we pay a ****** fortune in tax and expect nothing back for it.
 
This thread rocks.

Too many people have a such a narrow mind that they think their own situation is replicated around the whole country.

I should have had a pushbike at uni. Would have been fun pedalling down the M1 with my PC hanging off one handle bar, tv off the other and towing a trailer with the rest of my things in.

Personally cyclists annoy me, they pedal up hills so slowly and cars get past. They go through red lights as if they don't exist. However I think a lot of people imagine that they get cut up by cars when on bikes. Why on earth would anyone want to hit a bike and risk scratching their paint :p
 
You spelt "imbecile" wrong, calling someone an idiot but spelling the word wrong isn't a good move on this forum.

Oh I never knew that,I've been here since 2000 and I just learnt something new about good old OCUK forums :)

opps ive missed a space between "," and "I've". I hope I dont get slated for that too :)
 
Since when were bus companies anything other than privately owned?

Lots of bus companies remain owned by the public sector, although these days are owned by councils. Of course, prior to 1987, the entire bus network was publically owned. Even the private companies receive large subsidies from local government, funded by taxpayers money.
 
Yes I gathered that, but I fail to see how funny that is?

Here's a good one for ya, I've juts witnessed my dog crapping in my garden, you find that funny too huh?

I'm not the person who picked you up about it, I was merely pointing out the correct spelling so no I don't find your dogs toileting all that amusing but thanks for the information.
 
[TW]Fox;10220462 said:
Who are you to decide whats genuinelly useful?

I drive becuase I thoroughly enjoy it. Much the same reason as you cycle I would imagine.

No, I cycle to get to work. If I wanted to go Go Karting, I go to a track. If I wanted to play pool, I go to a bar.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't justify it. Thats like saying, we should let you use the space outside the front of your house on the sidepath as an extension of your house, just because you want to.

Like it or lump it, we all have to share the roads.

@ Mohinder, yes it is *at the moment*. I was hoping we could get past the Status Quo and address some of the real issues I raised, without having to resort to name calling.

I think it is ridiculous that you can possibly think that our current state is sustainable. Do you think there are becoming less people in the world? That the number of car owners is suddenly going to drop, or that the government will just solve all our problems for us? Are you waiting for other people to stop clogging up the roads so that you can use them?

That is why this problem is a "tragedy of the commons" problem. You don't care, no-one does, but at the end of the day, it is you who will suffer. I am already free of 95% of these problems, because a) I got a job that was within my ability to get there (infrastructure, rail or cycle) b) the infrastructure does not suffer from this problem, and is scalable, whereas an infinite amount of cars on a finite number of roads/road space does not compute.
 
3) It rains. I get wet cycling. No biggy. Some people don't like rain. But unless you are carrying your work in a paper bag, its not likely to affect you too much. Buy a coat/hat.

Why would people wish to buy a coat, a hat and cycle in the rain when they can instead cruise into town in a third of the time, listening to their favourite CD, in climate controlled comfort, perfectly dry?

As far as I can see here, the only people who are winning in all of this, is the car companies. And all of our problems are "tragedy of the commons" type issues.

We win as well, becuase we get to drive cars. And cars are awesome.
 
Their's a bit of a riot in here me thinks. :eek::p

Anyway im a cyclist myself, i try and stick to the rules as much as i can like for instance when their's a red light i do actually stop instead of just going straight threw it. :)
 
Just because you enjoy something doesn't justify it. Thats like saying, we should let you use the space outside the front of your house on the sidepath as an extension of your house, just because you want to.

It's not at all, it's completely different. You are failing to understand that different people have different perceptions of whats enjoyable and what isn't. You feel that becuase you don't mind cycling along in the rain, nobody else should either. You also feel that just becuase you see a car as a method of A to B and nothing more, nobody else should either.

FWIW there is no sidewalk outside my house. The nearest is over a mile away. Another reason why I don't use public transport very often.
 
I think it is ridiculous that you can possibly think that our current state is sustainable. Do you think there are becoming less people in the world? That the number of car owners is suddenly going to drop, or that the government will just solve all our problems for us? Are you waiting for other people to stop clogging up the roads so that you can use them?

Maybe your supermarket could try getting all it's deliverys via pushbike too?
 
I haven't been here long, but people seem on edge about spelling etc. imo.
Don't worry, its only because they've spent half their life studying at uni, it gives them an excuse to make use of their pointless degree :)
 
Don't worry, its only because they've spent half their life studying at uni, it gives them an excuse to make use of their pointless degree :)

Are you saying English Degrees are pointless then? As that's the only degree I know of that teaches spelling and grammar.
 
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