Toshiba calling it quits on HD-DVD

[Mr Latte]

Fanboy, oh gees grow the hell up...

Thats one thing im not, ive criticised Sony managment and the whole pile load of mistakes they made, the crap they came out with PRE launch and then such a poor launch with lack of titles in software and films as inexcusable since the damn launch of the machine. They completely overhyped and under performed with the goods, they also lost a lot of developer support to Microsoft with their delays and unavoidable high price.
Confidence in the system was low but i guess now this news completely reverses the systems chances.

My problems were always not so much in the system but its lack of entertainemnt. Ive been voicing my opinions on here more so than many and annoying at the time several such fanboys on here so how it actually makes me one just because i see the potential and position this news means to Sony.

Have you considered what could happen?
Like VHS just what if Phillips and Panasonic started making standlone players that also incorporated PS3, cant you see potentially if Sony now agree to license their PS3 technology to other partners PS3 system itself could become a household standard.

 

[Joebob]

I happen to agree with almost all of what Mr. Latte was saying. i think your view is a little skewed tbh.

4. Upcoming TV features with wireless control or sending to PSP - the PVR addon is the price of a good PVR, and no-one has confirmed if it can record while playing a game, it looks so far like it can't.. and even then it's no good for the largest market, the US..

Last I heard was that you could play games whilst recording and that Europe was Sony's biggest market and not the US.

 

[Mr Latte]

I just love that feature list..

1. Web Browser on your HDTV - not a mainstream feature
2. PSP Wireless conectivity benifits - you need a PSP for this, the best selling handheld is a DS, and again it's not mainstream, it's just a marketing tick box.
3.CD Blu Ray & DVD movie playback - the BR is the only thing your standalone DVD player doesn't have.
4. Upcoming TV features with wireless control or sending to PSP - the PVR addon is the price of a good PVR, and no-one has confirmed if it can record while playing a game, it looks so far like it can't.. and even then it's no good for the largest market, the US..
5.Upcoming Sony Playstation mobile phone - is this for real? so lets see, does this involve actually having the PS3 on and the TV switched onto 'view' the PS3 for it to be useful?

Yes all in one box, but your forgetting one important factor that the chances are now that most homes are going to be buying some form of Blu Ray player for their HDTV as Blu Ray takes off. Im pointing out that for the average family why then not a PS3, its a good player (thank you james) little "Johnny" might have a PSP already, mums into family photos, Dad wants all his music in one place omg lets buy one for the living room and one for the kids bedroom.

 

[cheets64]

What is blu-ray like for piracy, we all know how important it is to the average public and the boom piracy helped push along the DVD format.

 

[Demon]

some of those same parents are buying ps3's for playing bluray lol

??? I was discussing people buying the PS3 as a standalone BR player, and that fact the PS3 is the best 'cheap' BR player out there.. why is this so LOL?

thats because the ps2 is an awful dvd player. it would have been a different story if it were rivalling, and beating, similarly priced dvd players of the time. as it stands, the ps3 is both a fantastic dvd player AND a fantastic bluray player. its the smart choice for bluray, its really that simple. and thats why people are buying them who wouldnt necessarily buy them for the games.

In all fairness, 95% of all dvd players sold are cheap crap, but I agree, see previous point, The PS3 is a great BR player, hence my original comment that being the best BR player and incidentally just about the cheapest may not actually be the best thing for Sony from this single perspective as they lose money per console sold...

no, he just loves a decent bit of hardware, as do i. and we can both see the potential for it, outside of gaming.

No, he misread my orignal comments which had nothing to do with MS, quotes the most whimsical list of 'positives' that a 'parent' would choose to buy a PS3 over a cheap standalone BR player (not for gaming) and then somehow brings microsoft into the equation as having to be careful.. that's not 'right'...

 

[Booner!]

Maybe M$ didn't want to start producing HDDVD games because they were never confident in it... by using an addon, less people would be affected if it failed than if they were to incorporate it.

 

[Demon]

Fanboy, oh gees grow the hell up...

Thats one thing im not, ive criticised Sony managment and the whole pile load of mistakes they made, the crap they came out with PRE launch and then such a poor launch with lack of titles in software and films as inexcusable since the damn launch of the machine. They completely overhyped and under performed with the goods, they also lost a lot of developer support to Microsoft with their delays and unavoidable high price.
Confidence in the system was low but i guess now this news completely reverses the systems chances.

My problems were always not so much in the system but its lack of entertainemnt. Ive been voicing my opinions on here more so than many and annoying at the time several such fanboys on here so how it actually makes me one just because i see the potential and position this news means to Sony.

Have you considered what could happen?
Like VHS just what if Phillips and Panasonic started making standlone players that also incorporated PS3, cant you see potentially if Sony now agree to license their PS3 technology to other partners PS3 system itself could become a household standard.

See above post, I made a 'common sense' observation that now the war is over, and Sony are still losing money per console, the fact the PS3 is the BEST BR player and also just about the cheapest means that if BR was adopted too quickly by the masses, and suddenly sold loads, that isn't necessarily the best scenario for Sony? which is obviously up for discussion,

However telling me that if it all goes mainstream, people won't buy cheap BR players for the front room, they spend more money and buy a PS3 because it's all things to all men, and give this whimisical list of 'positives' why parents will buy a PS3 over a standalone BR player for their front room.. it's laughable at best, sad at worst..

To then just prove the point, you somehow then dragged MS into this? no one mentioned MS, it was all about the PS3 being the best/cheapest BR player, but you seem to just want to throw in a "MS better watch it cos the PS3 is taking over the world" slant/comment.. that's being a naive fanboy in anyone's book... just because once you where level headed doesn't mean anything..

as you can tell, it's sad that you can't try and have a sensible conversation with logicical discussion points on here, whatever you say about Sony, people just don't read what you actually said, just come out with an almost verbatim cut and paste of why the PS3 will take over the world..

If you can discuss with logic and reason why if Sony suddenly sold millions of PS3's to non-gamers as the only credible standalone BR player available it wouldn't be ideal due to the loss per unit sold then I'm all ears, at the end of the day selling PS3's to non-gamers for BR playback is not 'ideal', that's not knocking sony, that's just being a victim of circumstance.. remember I'm talking about people like my mum/dad buying a BR player, the same mass market that buy a cheapish DVD player, with no interest in gaming, no interest in buying virutal Nike trainers to hang with the other over 50's etc..

 

[Mr Latte]

How long do you think Sony will continue to loss money in the production?

Dont you see the revenue created via PS3 and in particular once Home gets established. More PS3 sales also means more developer support = more investment from partners = more games sales = more royalties = more games appear = more eason for joe public to buy one.

Also if people even buy the console just for Blu Ray their still going to make money from sales and rentals of films both from their own studios and other studio royalaties.

BD Rom will become instantly more popular as will sales of BD Writers
Blank Media demand will explode and prices will greatly reduce

Trust me Blu Ray just became MASSIVELY profitable.
Losses in PS3 production will not be a lasting factor

If you dont see it as a MAJOR factor in the console war and effecting Microsoft sales then your not really understanding business or how retaillers will quickly shift to pushing the format more and giving it much more display space.

Regards standalone players Sony still make money from them and the format. Im not saying they wont sell standalone players i actually stated you will find them within the £150-£200 this year.
Personally though i believe the majority of buyers will still purchase a PS3, to me thats common sense.

 

[Joebob]

I thought Sony weren't losing money per PS3 sold anymore? They managed to trim production costs so that they even make a small profit per unit but wont pass it on to the consumer until they have made back some of the money lost.

I'm sure that's what I read on Kotaku and some other sites a few months back.

I totally agree with what Mr. Latte has to say on this one Demon. There is much more to it than just how much money they make per unit sold. it's all about increasing the install base, the PS3 brand name and also making sure that BD takes off in a big way so that Sony can really capatilise on every HD film sold.

 

[FrankJH]

snip.

That was a very negative (and old - even though I know you said that first off) article, I dont think the Sony name was ever that bad

Wega tv's are still considered amongst the best lcd's you can get, projectors are also up there, the film studios, the music label (which still has a lot of major bands etc) - yes they made one mistake, attributed to a 3rd party supplier and made worse with a rushed fix, but still a huge brand in itself

the ps2 has made....$12Billion at a convservative estimate, admittedly nowhere near that is profit but even in turnover thats some serious going

Not to mention the video and still camera division (both of which sell pretty well and are highly regarded it seems)

edit - one more thing, I really dont think Sony will ever license PS3 as a brand name, its too valuable to them I think - dont get me wrong the technology might end up in Philips/ Panasonic gear, but called something slightly different - Sony will keep the PS name for next generation "consoles" I think

 

[JamesU2005]

Defeat? Whats equally as worrying is that you think you have personally won a war. Like you have gained anything personally.

Where in my post did I ever hint that I felt I had personally won a war or gained anything personally? I just said that it made me laugh!

Very odd response.

 

[mcwildcard]

Not sure if you intentionally picked on what is probably the only HD-DVD nutcase as an example of nut-cases or you are insinuating that HD-DVD attracted the fanatical nut jobs where as BR attracted professional open minded characters..

I think anyone should go to that forum (can't remember the name, but it's famous) where there where 1000 people like the above except on the BR side, where they organised regular jaunts to stop people buying HD-DVD players in shops, and created huge efforts to rig poll results..

I've never come accross such sad people, I fear that now they've had their 'victory' the BR fanboys will turn their attention elsewhere..

It wasn't a dig at anything other than the annoying zealots that ruin any reasonable discussion, BR, HD-DVD, 360 and PS3, all camps have 'em.
I just think it's rather sad.

 

[Demon]

How long do you think Sony will continue to loss money in the production?

just for the next 6 -12 - 18 months?? hence why I thought it interesting that now they've 'won' they are in an odd position of having the best BR player around which is also just about the cheapest, so will defo appeal to standalone only buyers (As we know it already does), but since they lose money per console, it's not ideal, sure if that owner buys loads of films, the net effect should be so bad, but at the end of the day, Sony make more if a person buys a standalone BR player as a standalone BR player, if that makes sense...

Dont you see the revenue created via PS3 and in particular once Home gets established. More PS3 sales also means more developer support = more investment from partners = more games sales = more royalties = more games appear = more eason for joe public to buy one.

HOME isn't something for the masses, no one will buy a PS3 just for HOME, we have enough social networking stuff around, Facebook/Bebo offer much of the presence, but offer 1 massive benefit, they can be accessed from work, or any internet connection, mobile phones, etc... HOME is only available on the PS3, it's not WoW, its not second life, it offers actually very little of worth at all.. but no doubt it will be big for 'gamers'..

Also if people even buy the console just for Blu Ray their still going to make money from sales and rentals of films both from their own studios and other studio royalaties.

Indeed, but as I said above, if the buyer bought a Samsung BR Standalone and just wanted to play BR films, Sony would be better off with that, since any money lost on the hardware is lost potential profit.

BD Rom will become instantly more popular as will sales of BD Writers
Blank Media demand will explode and prices will greatly reduce

You have incorrectly assumed I think BR is not going to be big.. I do.. like you I have a PS3 and a combo PC drive.. again I'm just saying this short term position Sony are in is not ideal..

Trust me Blu Ray just became MASSIVELY profitable.
Losses in PS3 production will not be a lasting factor

indeed, and I agree, but again I'm just saying the short term position they are in..

If you dont see it as a MAJOR factor in the console war and effecting Microsoft sales then your not really understanding business or how retaillers will quickly shift to pushing the format more and giving it much more display space.

??? pushing what format? ?? console war who? not sure where that is from/heading at all..
However, just rest assured that 'all the money' to be made is vastly in game sales/downloaded movies, MS have this covered as well as Sony, just look at the current situation, MS sell more software per unit by a country mile, and oddly there revenue is much larger by a country mile (PS3 V 360 only!)...

Regards standalone players Sony still make money from them and the format. Im not saying they wont sell standalone players i actually stated you will find them within the £150-£200 this year.
Personally though i believe the majority of buyers will still purchase a PS3, to me thats common sense.

The majority of buyers aren't 'us' i.e. gamers on gaming forums.. just look at every other AV format and see what the masses do, they buy cheap ass crap and don't give two hoots about quality or 'features'.. and they are who the BDA are targetting, not 'us'.. if the PS3 costs £100 more then a standalone, the masses won't pay that premium.. you need to see that the mass market are not gamers... then it makes sense.. It's like that retail park PC place, every fibre of common sense says they shouldn't be in business with the crap they sell and crap service they give, but oddly the vast majority of PC owners buy from places like that..

I am just talking short term, in the long term, I agree, just looking at standalone's only, they should be making profit on the hardware.. and I agree/see all your points about future adoption..

See, I am actually fine about BR.. I'm like you in enjoying films and are 100% open minded, however where we differ is that being a realist, I don't share your views on the PS3's one box takes over all future outcome.. time will tell, I base my views on what a mix of past/present 'data' with a good dose of skepticism that knows the future is never certain, and there is never a sure thing..

 

[Demon]

I thought Sony weren't losing money per PS3 sold anymore? They managed to trim production costs so that they even make a small profit per unit but wont pass it on to the consumer until they have made back some of the money lost.

You just have to read between the lines.. as with all *** companies, they never give you the right figures..

The big announcement by sony is that the gaming devision is now making a profit once more due largely to a cut in production costs of the PS3..

That sounds like the PS3 is making a profit, the reality is you have to take the PS2 profit into this, so in actual fact, the correct statement is "The PS2 is making enough profit to more then offset the PS3 loss".. i.e. the PS3 isn't losing as much as it used to, but still making a loss.

Both MS and Sony make a loss still per console, I think I'm right in saying that's an accepted fact..
I agree 100% that possibly 2009 both consoles may be sold at a profit, but it's always hard to tell, since they keep dropping the prices..

 

[SiD the Turtle]

Glad that we now have only one format on the table, however I'm not about to go out and replace my 150+ DVDs with £15-£20 Blu-Ray equivalents. I simply don't see the the benefit of replacing old movies with high-def copies unless there is a good reason, such as I would buy Blade Runner as I have the original first generation DVD (aka not much better than VHS) or the price was dirt cheap, like DVDs are now. No way would I pay £20 to watch something like Eddie Murphy in a Fat-suit Seven on Blue Ray.

So now I'm putting together a list of movies that I don't own, or own on DVD that would be musts to upgrade to Blu-Ray, but the vast of my collection won't be getting replaced. Also, I'm likely to import the majority of them (regions permitting).

 

[McManicMan]

end of the day i don't think Sony are that worried they might have a sudden influx of people buying the PS3 JUST for a blu-ray player because at present its the best value for money and thus losing money in the short fall, after all MS never made any money on their consoles for over 6yrs. Their market share will increase and all will be good in the long run.

 

[Mr Latte]

Demon im not going to read all of your reply. You dont seem to understand business at all. If PS3 hardware costs are a problem to you then try to realise companies always recoup such losess back from peripherals, sales of software, royalties from advertisers, also partners and the industry as a whole.

Just about every console loses money at the start (bar usually Nintendo) Just remember how much they were losing at the start with the system compared to now. Then look at how much more money they are now making from the above with the installed and growing userbase they have, its simple business facts. The console is like a loss leader, but without the initial loss you havnt got the userbase to turn potential profit.

For all you know Sony could sell a standalone BD player and loss money even on it. The idea is to hit a price point to gain sales and grow the platform.
Consider the sale and possible loss on a player as probable "word of mouth advertising" if nothing else. Eventually production costs fall into a profit margin and your userbase size increases therefore profits also increase. The mobile phone market is a perfect example of how expensive hardware is offset with revenue in users using profit making services. Look at mobile texts,calls and internet as software,movie and peripheral sales for consoles or blu ray players.

You can save this for another day, that ive said it....
HOME is going to be massive for the PS3, id bet my house on it being a major factor to PS3's continued success.

 

[Mr Latte]

HOME isn't something for the masses, no one will buy a PS3 just for HOME, we have enough social networking stuff around, Facebook/Bebo offer much of the presence, but offer 1 massive benefit, they can be accessed from work, or any internet connection, mobile phones, etc... HOME is only available on the PS3, it's not WoW, its not second life, it offers actually very little of worth at all.. but no doubt it will be big for 'gamers'

Totally disagree as i feel you fail to realise how unique this is for console platform, the already proven popularity of self customisation, the possibilites it opens and Sonys ability to market the hell out of it.

Sony would be better off with that, since any money lost on the hardware is lost potential profit.

No they wouldnt as PS3 privides many more possibilities for increased potential revenue. Based on a percentage the majority of people that buy or already have bought a PS3 for Blu Ray im sure have also, bought the remote control, possible a game or two and maybe USB camera or other peripheral.

See, I am actually fine about BR.. I'm like you in enjoying films and are 100% open minded, however where we differ is that being a realist, I don't share your views on the PS3's one box takes over all future outcome.. time will tell, I base my views on what a mix of past/present 'data' with a good dose of skepticism that knows the future is never certain, and there is never a sure thing..

Based on PS2s popularity, the additional things the PS3 now has going for itself and has coming, then anyone can surely see that its now going to be in a much stronger positon against Microsofts console. Home should eventually fill in the missing "LIVE" experience. More games are now coming and remember we havnt had the BIG Playstation franchises yet.

For non gamers the PS3 still may be the most popular choice of platform for BD playback for quite sometime. Lets assume a target audience with im sure ages of 6-40 as widely acceptable. It all depends on how soon and how much standalone players fall cheaper than a PS3 system.

 

[Scratchy]

I think I posted this in the wrong thread

Universal statement:

"The path for widespread adoption of the next-generation platform has finally become clear. Universal will continue its aggressive efforts to broaden awareness for hi-def’s unparalleled offerings in interactivity and connectivity, at an increasingly affordable price. The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate. While Universal values the close partnership we have shared with Toshiba, it is time to turn our focus to releasing new and catalog titles on Blu-ray."

 

[Nymins]

I think I posted this in the wrong thread

Universal statement:

"The path for widespread adoption of the next-generation platform has finally become clear. Universal will continue its aggressive efforts to broaden awareness for hi-def’s unparalleled offerings in interactivity and connectivity, at an increasingly affordable price. The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate. While Universal values the close partnership we have shared with Toshiba, it is time to turn our focus to releasing new and catalog titles on Blu-ray."

Yay!