The armed forces.

If there is only one thing life has ever told me, is that there is *always* a choice.

And don't try and justify going to other countries and fighting their wars and being a hero... if I don't agree with your cause I am not going to celebrate you, I'm not totally moronic. Just because you are locked into a system whereby you have no influence on the situation doesn't mean that I am.

A professional weapon you may be, that is fair enough. I fully respect someone's right to follow soldiarship to its highest degree, as I respect anyones' right to pursue their own personal progression in any field they see fit. But then handing that weapon over simply for money without really caring what it will be used for is not going to get my support unless I *support your cause*.

How is this difficult to understand? You don't support your government just because they are your government, do you??
 
If there is only one thing life has ever told me, is that there is *always* a choice.

And don't try and justify going to other countries and fighting their wars and being a hero... if I don't agree with your cause I am not going to celebrate you, I'm not totally moronic. Just because you are locked into a system whereby you have no influence on the situation doesn't mean that I am.

A professional weapon you may be, that is fair enough. I fully respect someone's right to follow soldiarship to its highest degree, as I respect anyones' right to pursue their own personal progression in any field they see fit. But then handing that weapon over simply for money without really caring what it will be used for is not going to get my support unless I *support your cause*.

How is this difficult to understand? You don't support your government just because they are your government, do you??

Excellent post merely because it highlights that we are humans with the ability to make choices rather than robots who behave as they told.

The fact of the matter is that there would be no wars if there where no soldiers to fight them.
 
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But then handing that weapon over simply for money without really caring what it will be used for is not going to get my support unless I *support your cause*.

How is this difficult to understand? You don't support your government just because they are your government, do you??

Sure, I can appreciate that.

Just don't insult the soldiers when they get home, that's all we ask.
 
The fact of the matter is that there would be no wars if there where no soldiers to fight them.

I think you mean there probably would be no wars if there were no soldiers to fight them but that would be to ignore a very basic aspect of humankind which is that we have always grouped together and fought so the naming and salarying of a body of people as soldiers has little impact on that apart from making it a bit more efficient and giving them a certain status and benefits. So I don't think you go far enough, the logical conclusion is there would be no wars if there were no people.
 
I think you mean there probably would be no wars if there were no soldiers to fight them but that would be to ignore a very basic aspect of humankind which is that we have always grouped together and fought so the naming and salarying of a body of people as soldiers has little impact on that apart from making it a bit more efficient and giving them a certain status and benefits. So I don't think you go far enough, the logical conclusion is there would be no wars if there were no people.

We are evolving and we are supposed to find ways to move forward without killing each other. Any way of justifying the current sad situation of mankind doesn't help. Similarly if I justify my unbalanced character by assinging responsibility to my parents wrong doings that doesnt help me get over whatever it is that is causing problems in me does it?

Sure we have always grouped and fight together, there is little psychological evolution as we keep killing each other but so what? We have proved again and again that if we put our minds and hearts together everything is possible including the ending of all wars. Why we always exclude the latter as "impossible" because "..........".
 
Those poor guys were playing an extremely dangerous game though. There isn't exactly a mechanism to encourage independance like that. The hierarchy is based on absolute control in order to strategically and logistically manage a very large and complex force.

what a complete load of balls

clearly you don't really know a lot about soldiers.....
 
We are evolving and we are supposed to find ways to move forward without killing each other. Any way of justifying the current sad situation of mankind doesn't help. Similarly if I justify my unbalanced character by assinging responsibility to my parents wrong doings that doesnt help me get over whatever it is that is causing problems in me does it?

Ah, you are an idealist. Good on you, I tend to be more of a pragmatist in these matters and therefore think it highly unlikely that humankind will ever stop warring in one way or another.

Sure we have always grouped and fight together, there is little psychological evolution as we keep killing each other but so what? We have proved again and again that if we put our minds and hearts together everything is possible including the ending of all wars. Why we always exclude the latter as "impossible" because "..........".

I wish you luck but I think you'll need more than that, there is too much money and too much power/land/influence to be gained from wars or even the threat of wars. I don't think we've proved that the ending of wars is possible, we've just advanced our techniques for fighting them and made it so that the damage caused can be controlled remotely and on a scale unimaginable even 100 years ago.
 
Ah, you are an idealist. Good on you, I tend to be more of a pragmatist in these matters and therefore think it highly unlikely that humankind will ever stop warring in one way or another.

Theres definately two sides to the argument here, and neither is completely right or wrong. IN the end there isn't likely to be a stop to warring, especially when the "developed/advanced" countries invade countries for greed.

Our governments are completely wrong to be in Iraq, really our armies should be maintained at numbers that can secure our own country or at least give any army a damn good hurting before you would hope other nations helped us. Are our soldiers wrong to go over there, well in the world the way it is, we can't really live without an army so if those guys who want to defend the country are sent to invade somewhere they don't have a huge amount of choice. Could they all refuse to go, strike perhaps, maybe. Would a huge portion of the abled body jump to the UK's defence should they be needed to though, probably.

Theres simply no clean cut answer here. Its still seen that Saddam's armies are "good" kills and civilians are "bad" kills. Frankly both are bad, we invaded another nation we have no legal right to be there in any way or form. You can't blame the soldiers for doing as they are asked, but neither can I legitimately say they are doing the right thing.

Treating anyone with disrespect is wrong at any time unless that person has personally lost your respect in dealings with YOU and YOU ALONE.

I would say there are three levels of respect with which you should deal with people. Neutral, where I would not treat anyone badly, nor be excessively respectful either. You have to earn respect through the way you behave, even if thats in minutes by being a nice, helpful polite and just generally nice person and at that point I would be more inclined to go the extra mile to be helpful. If you act like a jackass and are rude or just a nasty person in any way you lose respect. But i can't see how demanding someone remove their uniform is behaviour i would apply to a soldier even if they were a complete jackass. Thats almost humiliation, thats different to not respecting someone.


You can not respect someone, then you can show a lack of respect, two very different things.

The problem with the other problem, the should we be at war, are soldiers in the wrong for partaking in , lets be honest, a completely illegal war. Theres really not a be all and end all answer, there isn't a correct and a wrong side to this argument. IN a perfect world we wouldn't need an army, we would stockpile weapons and if anyone attacked us as a nation we would stand up and say, eat lead you ****ing commies :p

If there were the case our government would have a hard time conscripting people to fight an illegal war.

Frankly, a developed nation should NEVER invade a country unless a maybe predetermined number of citizens in that nation are clearly asking for help to avoid genocide and the like.

Civilised nations should really quite simply not start wars, its as easy as that. Finish them, but don't start them.

The still scary part is that we have a government who were fully willing to go in and invade for greed and nothing but. Frankly even if they had WMD's, invading on that basis is pretty awful anyway. Since when did having WMD's cause us to invade countries to get rid of them.

Theres almost a certain thought in my mind, not sure if its a good one or not. but the sooner everyone had the bomb the sooner the USA and its little puppet the UK would stop acting like they get to decide whats right and wrong, and they can kill who they want for whatever fake reason in the name of greed.
 
People who have served, there are people in this thread that have served in the RAF, RN and British Army and posted the facts. As usual their posts are largely ignored in favour of nitpicking the arguements of people who make arguements a poster disagrees with, and has no more real knowledge than them.

This isn't a dig at you, but it is what the vast majority of this thread consists of:(

Very true, ive answered many of the questions raised on here but to no avail, for obvious reasons i wont go into detail but i have served in the frontline infantry on three tours in high intensity conflict areas in recent times and am off again in less than 4 weeks. I wish people on these forums would realise that we are not fighting Iraqi's in Iraq of Afghans in Afghanistan, we (those that do not wish to bow down to the taliban and al qaeda) are fighting extremists and insurgents who care very little for the indigenous population of whatever country they happen to be attacking.
 
^^^^

well said tbh..

unfortunately there are a few people who let their personal feelings about the rights or wrongs of invading Iraq influence their views over current operations.

People need to understand that troops deployed there at the moment are NOT doing anything illegal, are helping to maintain security and re-build the country and are having a bloody hard time doing it.
 
the thing is "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter", they see us as invaders, not liberators.

funny, talking to my best mate in afghanistan at the moment every week gives me the impression theres a hell of a lot of thankful afghan citizens, obviously theres a lot of unrest etc in some areas of the country, and some civilians are not happy about the western forces being there, but the local forces are appreciative of the role our armed forces have played/play there, trying to build a more stable brighter future for the country.
 
I wonder if some people here really believe that the reason we went to Iraq was out of care and desire to "improve" their country and their way of life.

:rolleyes:
 
The whole Iraqi invasion...thus any soldier and CO is classed as a war criminal. Except because "we are right" then your viewpoint is this invasion is just. Unless you even class GWB admitting his earlier lies, as good enough excuse for this mess. If so you are no different to a member of the german population is 1940 (supporting the invasion of poland and other countries, based on the leader at the time)

If only more soldiers were like Lt. Erhen Watada.

Again Sir, the man asked you to cite specific authority. Line and verse. We aren't going to buy this "the Iraqi invasion is wrong, and so all soldiers should 'resign' because I say so" nonsense.

Cheekykid said:
I wonder if some people here really believe that the reason we went to Iraq was out of care and desire to "improve" their country and their way of life.

Nope. It's all about long-term security, and national interests.

Although, now that we are in Iraq, I think the country has an obligation to improve their way of life. In A-Stan, the obligation is even more clear: If A-Stan, again, becomes a failed state, all the effort put into that place will be for nothing, and the country will be a haven for extremists once again.
 
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