My mistake - but I think my point is still valid on the point of morality, yes?
thanks for pointing that out.
Rich
can i get christened at 23?
- Thread starter welshboy
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My mistake - but I think my point is still valid on the point of morality, yes?
thanks for pointing that out.
Rich
"Morality" as a concept is completely null and void, inasmuch that it does not exist as a whole and complete package. You can learn 'morality' through a wide variety of means. Admittedly religions do attempt to teach 'morality', but personally, I would say they are no more or less successful at teaching 'morals' to people than those morals which would be acquired by someone taught 'morals' by an athiest.
If anything, again: I would hedge the statement that religions are worse at teaching morality. How many true athiests do you know that are racist? How many athiests do you know that would select the almost certain death of a mother-to-be in what is known will be a risky childbirth, against the slim-to-nonexistant chance of a 'miracle' saving both?
Here's another one for you. Jehovah's Witnesses not accepting blood transfusions. I mean seriously, what the ****? You would rather die than accept the gift of life donated by another person completely voluntarily?
If anything, again: I would hedge the statement that religions are worse at teaching morality. How many true athiests do you know that are racist? How many athiests do you know that would select the almost certain death of a mother-to-be in what is known will be a risky childbirth, against the slim-to-nonexistant chance of a 'miracle' saving both?
Here's another one for you. Jehovah's Witnesses not accepting blood transfusions. I mean seriously, what the ****? You would rather die than accept the gift of life donated by another person completely voluntarily?
But you can have morals, grace and inner peace without spirituality. Spirituality is a very religious concept (in quite a broad sense of the term, what I mean is it's almost always associated with something supernatural) so to someone who is not religious, it's not really an important concept.
Ok, sorry, I have to push one further counter-religion argument, then I'll shut up.
One point which gets pressed about the 'big bang' theory; what came before? What created that big bang?
Ignoring the point of there actually being no time before the big bang for there to be anything before it, a similar counter-argument for the religionists:
If God created everything, what created God? How did he come into existance?
One point which gets pressed about the 'big bang' theory; what came before? What created that big bang?
Ignoring the point of there actually being no time before the big bang for there to be anything before it, a similar counter-argument for the religionists:
If God created everything, what created God? How did he come into existance?
Very true, but the OP is religious. My whole point is that people are telling him to look to a science book, but a science book does not contain what he is looking for.
I'm not a Christian and do not believe in God as a seperate entity from us, the universe or anything else.
For me there is nothing and has never been anything that is outside of God. This is a complex concept to grasp and probably not appropriate to go into it this thread.
And neither do any religious texts. Unless what he is looking for is fantasy. Better off with a good Tolkien book in that case.
He has always been there of course.
I love this claim, like God got REALLY bored one day and thought:
"**** it, i'm so bored, I'll make a universe!"
And it was so...
Rich
Soldato
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You me or anyone can know NOTHING of what newtons personal views were on this, we can only guess from his writings
Take one simple look at british history, the only way the UK rose to power was through the brutal abuse of nearly every other nation on earth, look it up for yourself, its FACT not works of fiction. You seemingly label the UK as having 'christain' values, now take a look at what actually happen and its every bit as brutal as the the bible is. (yes i have read the bible)
as long as u make statements with some thought behind them we will b ok
It can be quite subjective and easly observable in humans and other species, hence why we have comparisons. For what ever 'reasons' humans have they can label things as moral. Studies have been done and proven that gorillas for example have morality, when fights amongst group members happen, its been observed a 3rd gorilla has stepped in and tried to calm the situation and make life better for the whole group, a moral desicion ? if not what ?, this has been covered in non other than dawkins series that was shown on C4 the root of all evil and other docs he has done ( i cant remember than name of the series that had the morality of mammals section in ), in the very least moraility has evolutionary advantages, its just most people mix this 'feeling' up with some stories some random made up thousands of years ago
If the only way my parents could instill a sense of internal discipline (towards violence and other human tendancies) in me was to send me to church as a child, I would consider them weak parents. They didn't have to, I have been raised to consider possibilities and analyse them based around available and indeed speculative evidence. I believe this is in fact the root of the society we recognise today, NOT Christianity itself. Whether it had been there in writing or not, all it simply does is personify the thoughts of the general populus and indeed highlights what most believe to be the ideal method of interacting with those around us.
Even without christian teachings as a child, I believe I am a caring, empathic human being who looks at the world from a fairly objective point of view. People have their own free will and thus can think however and about whatever they like. Societies rules to stop one person affecting another in a manner that they do not want are there not because of religion but because they are necessery and have evolved over time.
If i concluded that the "teachings" of christianity were likely to be true (and that Jesus was in fact not just a figure deified by a Roman emperor wanting to switch his empires belief system from paganistic to the now so called christianity) I would still not worship God in any formal sense. Any deity that seeks worship is not worth worshipping in my honest opinion. If the only way into "heaven" is to attend church and take part in rituals such as baptism then i'll take my chances.
Had the concept of a formalised set of "religious" rules to live by never been created I believe society would be at about the same stage as it is now just without conflict caused by people disagreeing over their formalisations of their beliefs. They would still be fighting over other things though! This would never occur anyway, as the famous quotation goes "If God did not exist, it would be necessery to invent Him."
That aside, if having your forehead splashed with water and a few specific words uttered will make you feel like you are following the path God wants you too, then I can understand the significance within your own internal thought processes.
Even without christian teachings as a child, I believe I am a caring, empathic human being who looks at the world from a fairly objective point of view. People have their own free will and thus can think however and about whatever they like. Societies rules to stop one person affecting another in a manner that they do not want are there not because of religion but because they are necessery and have evolved over time.
If i concluded that the "teachings" of christianity were likely to be true (and that Jesus was in fact not just a figure deified by a Roman emperor wanting to switch his empires belief system from paganistic to the now so called christianity) I would still not worship God in any formal sense. Any deity that seeks worship is not worth worshipping in my honest opinion. If the only way into "heaven" is to attend church and take part in rituals such as baptism then i'll take my chances.
Had the concept of a formalised set of "religious" rules to live by never been created I believe society would be at about the same stage as it is now just without conflict caused by people disagreeing over their formalisations of their beliefs. They would still be fighting over other things though! This would never occur anyway, as the famous quotation goes "If God did not exist, it would be necessery to invent Him."
That aside, if having your forehead splashed with water and a few specific words uttered will make you feel like you are following the path God wants you too, then I can understand the significance within your own internal thought processes.
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So by that, Christians are the only morally correct, graceful, and peaceful folk around these 'ere parts?
I would have thought that Science can teach you a lot more about anything then the Bible...
More to the point, something horrible has happened here...
This thread..is now a
Which is not a problem, if God created time and experiences it in a way that is different to us. These are standard Christian beliefs. God is described as unchanging (from a temporal perspective). Even his name - 'Yahweh' or 'Jehovah' (depending on how you like to transliterate Hebrew) means something like "I am" or more accurately "I am that I am, I have been what I am, I will be what I am".
So physically speaking, assuming that God makes decisions (and I believe he does), we're potentially talking about another temporal dimension. Is that any more ridiculous than what theoretical physicists are coming up with?
Why would God need to make a decision when it is supposedly all knowing? Surely a course of action should be known, rather then decided upon.
Decisions are left to us animals. Gods should just...Do.