For those who are religious

For those who are catholic. Have you actually read the bible and looked into the meanings of the words it contains. I am all for religion if people have a freedom of choice and understand what they believe in. How can you follow churches that believe in hell, have a pope and other such oddities which are totality against the bible. Some churches like CoE we even know why they where created. It does baffle me.
 
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Balddog said:
Stop being so pedantic. Its quite clear I was talking about humanity as an entity, not on an individual basis.

If that is the case, why is humanity stuck in a cycle of endless violence and war? Also, nobody you know is in the position to influence anything on a wide scale...Correct? We are just the pawns who get used by those who run things.
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So what your actually saying is that a minority of humanity is fueled by greed and power.
 
eddiemcgarrigle said:
Add Himmler to that list too. Himmler had a heavy belief in Germanic Paganism which was to be the official state 'religion' of a new Germania.
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If he had a heavy belief in Germanic Paganism then he wouldn't be a good choice to include in a list of atheist mass murders. :D
 
ringo747 said:
If you take that term from the Bible in John chapter 3 then yes! Although its not how I would explain easily to someone what we believe if you understand me.
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At what age did you accept Jesus?

No offence to you, but people born again after say their early 20s, have a tendency to be horribly patronising and obnoxious..Not to mention ridiculously forceful with their religious beliefs.
 
AcidHell2 said:
For those who are catholic. Have you actually read the bible and looked into the meanings of the words it contains. I am all for religion if people have a freedom of choice and understand what they believe in. How can you follow churches that believe in hell, have a pope and other such oddities which are totality against the bible. Some churches like CoE we even know why they where created. It does baffle me.
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Because the way you worship is pretty much unimportant compared to the message behind the religion? Very little of Catholicism goes against the Bible (if any of it) but some people find comfort in the ceremony, guidance and tradition it offers.
 
I was 15. I can't really comment on what kind of people you refer to or what denomination they are but if a Christian follows the Bible in the way they live their live then being 'ridiculously forceful' is not one of the traits to be practiced. I don't believe it is right to force any beliefs down anyones throat but sharing the gospel with others is a command in the Bible. The way it is done though is what matters. People being pressurized into things doesn't work.
 
ringo747 said:
I was 15. I can't really comment on what kind of people you refer to or what denomination they are but if a Christian follows the Bible in the way they live their live then being 'ridiculously forceful' is not one of the traits to be practiced. I don't believe it is right to force any beliefs down anyones throat but sharing the gospel with others is a command in the Bible. The way it is done though is what matters. People being pressurized into things doesn't work.
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I wish more born again christians were like you. Ive met a lot over the years..You are a minority.

My aunt was recently born again at about 50...and while spending some time at hers, i was introduced to a whole bunch of them...All of them were constantly telling me to accept jesus..being extremely forceful...One of them even printed out a few sentences for me to read and accept jesus and put it on my bed one night..:eek:

They also seemed to believe that unless you specifically state your acceptance of jesus, then you arent a real christian..All those who were raised as christians, who believe in jesus completely...they arent real christians and will burn in hell because they didnt read those few sentences out loud.

Seems quite amusing to me..and smacks of elitism..
 
RDM said:
Because the way you worship is pretty much unimportant compared to the message behind the religion?
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Very true. but I still find it very odd that you would worship in a place that you know supports and teaches the wrong ideas. I know that everyone religious ideas are diffract and even in the same denomination you'll get differences. But some of the differences like hell and the pope are huge.. But then I much prefer independent churches where people discus religion in groups and learn of each other, rather than being taught by an institution.

Also my post was meant as a question, sounds a bit more like bashing, but it was meant to be posed as a question.
 
Balddog said:
I wish more born again christians were like you. Ive met a lot over the years..You are a minority.

My aunt was recently born again at about 50...and while spending some time at hers, i was introduced to a whole bunch of them...All of them were constantly telling me to accept jesus..being extremely forceful...One of them even printed out a few sentences for me to read and accept jesus and put it on my bed one night..:eek:

They also seemed to believe that unless you specifically state your acceptance of jesus, then you arent a real christian..All those who were raised as christians, who believe in jesus completely...they arent real christians and will burn in hell because they didnt read those few sentences out loud.

Seems quite amusing to me..and smacks of elitism..
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I know exactly how you feel. Some local churches have what are called 'appeals' and they ask people to go up to the front and sign forms and read out stuff. That is totally contrary to what the Bible teaches! Signing something or reading a sentence is much different than exercising faith in what the Bible says. One of the things about being 'born again' is to realise first of all why you actually need salvation.

I feel that the reading of sentences is a real scam and it doesn't go hand in hand with true Christianity at all.

I don't like the elitist kind of attitude at all. The Bible would tell us that we come from dust really and we will return to dust and one of the desired attributes of a Christian is to be humble.

Any traces of snobbism or elitism just would put people off completely so I'm not sure what kind of people they were that you came across!
 
ringo747 said:
I know exactly how you feel. Some local churches have what are called 'appeals' and they ask people to go up to the front and sign forms and read out stuff. That is totally contrary to what the Bible teaches! Signing something or reading a sentence is much different than exercising faith in what the Bible says. One of the things about being 'born again' is to realise first of all why you actually need salvation.

I feel that the reading of sentences is a real scam and it doesn't go hand in hand with true Christianity at all.

I don't like the elitist kind of attitude at all. The Bible would tell us that we come from dust really and we will return to dust and one of the desired attributes of a Christian is to be humble.

Any traces of snobbism or elitism just would put people off completely so I'm not sure what kind of people they were that you came across!
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The whole idea that only 'born again' christians are real christians..That only christians who state, out loud, their acceptance of jesus as their saviour are real christians..and that all the other christians, regardless of how strongly they believe and how good christians they are, are not real christians and will burn in hell. That whole thing stinks of snobbery to me..

and its common amongst those people..you seem to be an anomaly.
 
Balddog said:
The whole idea that only 'born again' christians are real christians..That only christians who state, out loud, their acceptance of jesus as their saviour are real christians..and that all the other christians, regardless of how strongly they believe and how good christians they are, are not real christians and will burn in hell. That whole thing stinks of snobbery to me..

and its common amongst those people..you seem to be an anomaly.
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Well I would tend to agree that there are people who claim they are Christians but yet their lives don't show much evidence of it but we cannot judge the spiritual state of another! If a person states they are a Christian then that is fine. If they say they read a sentence out loud though then I would have to question the legitimacy of it I guess.

I wonder what would those folk suggest if a person became a Christian but then died the next day before they got to tell anyone? Obviously they won't have told anyone but the Bible doesn't mention that telling someone is a key requirement. Acts 16 for example just states "believe... and be saved".

One other point, it doesn't matter how strongly we believe or how much faith we have. It is the object of our faith that matters. If the amount of faith mattered then how would we know how much is enough!
 
I am a Christian (Protestant) and I have been brought up in a family of Christians with similar beliefs. I have not been brainwashed. I have not been taught to accept everything I hear. I have not been taught not to question anything I am told. I am not stupid. I am not ignorant. I am not blind to the world. I can not think of any Christians who are force their beliefs on strangers. On the other hand, in this thread alone, there seems to be a lot of atheists telling people who believe in God that they are stupid/ignorant.
 
To be fair there is a certain amount of truth to the conditioning/brainwashing argument. If people were not conditioned in to religion then you would not have as many people following the religions of their parents/community.
 
ordinaryjoe said:
I am a Christian (Protestant) and I have been brought up in a family of Christians with similar beliefs. I have not been brainwashed. I have not been taught to accept everything I hear. I have not been taught not to question anything I am told. I am not stupid. I am not ignorant. I am not blind to the world. I can not think of any Christians who are force their beliefs on strangers. On the other hand, in this thread alone, there seems to be a lot of atheists telling people who believe in God that they are stupid/ignorant.
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If this is all true then the atheists on here would ask how do you accept biblical stories which are patently untrue? What has made you believe that Jesus was the son of god and is going to save you from hell?

I'm not having a go at you, (I'm far from an Atheist) I'm just interested in what you actually believe and how you are able to place those beliefs into your everyday life in 2009.
 
D.P. said:
What has evolution got to do with religion?
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I'm sure you know the answer to this...

Some religions say the world and all living creatures were created directly by Gods hand. Evolution says it wasn't....they can be viewed as contradictory to one another. Evolution is denounced by many religious folk.

But yes probably what you were getting at was that evolution is not actually at odds with the idea of god at all, only at odds with certain religions teachings.
 
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I don't believe in a religion, partly because being forced to go to Church with my primary school every week was so utterly boring. It has never interested me in the slightest and I can't stand it when people talk about such drivel so passionately.

Now if somebody invented a Pokemon religion that might have drawn me in from a young age and be something I'd have stuck with!! :D
 
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