Attack on NI military base

[Brian Stuart]

And a gang is a social structure is it not

Yes that is correct although I took it that you were not using the term in the way you have just indicated but a cohesive social body rather than a collection of criminals. They may well form a social structure in sociological terms but we are talking real world here

 

[The Funktopus]

My sympathies go out to the families of the dead, and I wish those wounded in this meaningless act of senseless violence a speedy and full recovery. Hopefully the decent folk on all sides will see the perpetrators for what they are, faceless cowards and thugs of the highest order worthy only of contempt and disdain. Here's to hoping they're brought to justice swiftly.

 

[Brian Stuart]

My sympathies go out to the families of the dead, and I wish those wounded in this meaningless act senseless violence a speedy and full recovery. Hopefully the decent folk on all sides will see the perpetrators for what they are, faceless cowards and thugs of the highest order worthy only of contempt and disdain. Here's to hoping they're brought to justice swiftly.

+1

 

[Alphane]

Yes that is correct although I took it that you were not using the term in the way you have just indicated but a cohesive social body rather than a collection of criminals. They may well form a social structure in sociological terms but we are talking real world here

Inevitably if they aren't helped with the rehabilitation onto civvy street then quite likely a lot of them will go 'rogue', but also theres the fact that these orgonisations acted as the 'socially accepted' leaders, enforcers, and protectors of there given communities and are most likely whichever side there on held in high regard for there passion for there people.

 

[Alphane]

My sympathies go out to the families of the dead, and I wish those wounded in this meaningless act of senseless violence a speedy and full recovery. Hopefully the decent folk on all sides will see the perpetrators for what they are, faceless cowards and thugs of the highest order worthy only of contempt and disdain. Here's to hoping they're brought to justice swiftly.

<Q.F.T>

Sorry got abit up on my high horse there, these things really get me on my last nerve sometimes

 

[m0r94n]

Agreed. Then both sides came to their collective senses and decided that dialogue was the only answer. since then there have been concessions on both sides and NI is largely a peaceful, great place to be.
Dissident republicans still believe that armed struggle will force GB into ceding sovereignty of Ulster to Eire

I don't mean to sound ignorant when I say this as I can't admit to fully understanding the situation in Ireland (though Scuzi's earlier post does shed some light).

From my understanding these dissidents have tried several times to force the situation into their hands, but have so far been largely unsuccessful. I don't see how they hope to achieve their goal by inciting terror and striking fear in to the hearts of the people on their own streets. For me it seems as if they will forever be fighting a losing battle and seek to further damage their own reputations. How can they expect to be taken seriously as a group that wants social change when they have demonstrated little regard for the safety of their own society?

Obviously, if any of the points I have made are misguided please correct me. As I said, i'm just trying to fully understand the situation.

 

[pcmedicni]

Very quick brief. Quite some time ago, the entire island of Ireland was one country. The British invaded and took over. Once they had control, the plantation took place where Lords and Knights and whatnot were sent to Ireland in exchange for vast amounts of land (which had been taken from the natives). The area where most plantation took place was in Ulster. After many rebellions from the Irish, an agreement was reached where 26 of Irelands counties became a free state and eventually a Republic. Some were happy with this but a lot were not. Irish Republicans wanted the entire island of Ireland to be one Republic. The recent day conflict is primarily due to this. The Republican paramilitaries were fighting for a united Ireland and the Loyalist paramilitaries claimed to be defending Northern Ireland. Segregation became normal and tensions rose hence the start of the troubles.

Thats not entirely true,Ireland was only ever one country for a very few years under one leader.It was for 99% of the time fragmented much like early England and its various kingdoms.The area in the north eastern part of Ireland was settled long before the plantation by low land Scots called Picts.The majority of people here have a distinct and separate identity from the rest of Ireland.

Either way last night was another futile waste of life.

 

[Art]

I don't see how they hope to achieve their goal by inciting terror and striking fear in to the hearts of the people on their own streets.

Nobody else can see that either to be honest, but they don't seem to particularly care. The only thing I can think of is that they're trying to provoke the UK government/the unionist paramilitaries into retaliating so badly that it pulls more moderate republicans onto their side.

As long as nobody does anything totally stupid, it'll hopefully not upset the situation too badly. Not that that'll be any comfort to the victims and their families.

 

[Brian Stuart]

I don't mean to sound ignorant when I say this as I can't admit to fully understanding the situation in Ireland (though Scuzi's earlier post does shed some light).

From my understanding these dissidents have tried several times to force the situation into their hands, but have so far been largely unsuccessful. I don't see how they hope to achieve their goal by inciting terror and striking fear in to the hearts of the people on their own streets. For me it seems as if they will forever be fighting a losing battle and seek to further damage their own reputations. How can they expect to be taken seriously as a group that wants social change when they have demonstrated little regard for the safety of their own society?

Obviously, if any of the points I have made are misguided please correct me. As I said, i'm just trying to fully understand the situation.

That sums up the situation vis-a-vis dissidents quite well.

 

[Scuzi]

From my understanding these dissidents have tried several times to force the situation into their hands, but have so far been largely unsuccessful. I don't see how they hope to achieve their goal by inciting terror and striking fear in to the hearts of the people on their own streets. For me it seems as if they will forever be fighting a losing battle and seek to further damage their own reputations. How can they expect to be taken seriously as a group that wants social change when they have demonstrated little regard for the safety of their own society?

Obviously, if any of the points I have made are misguided please correct me. As I said, i'm just trying to fully understand the situation.

I agree with everything you said. They have no support from any of the decent people in the communities where they operate. They are largely a bunch of kids using Republicanism as a shroud for their criminality.

For example, going back about 12 years when the whole Garvaghy Road dispute was at it's peak, when the decision was made to let the Orange Order march, there were riots all over the country. In the area and street where I live, these so called dissidents were hijacking cars, busses and lorries and burning them right on our doorstep. The only thing they achieved then was to severely inconvenience the people in their own community for months after. We had the army searching our gardens and drains a couple of times a week, heavily armed vehicle check points everywhere and you couldn't leave the house at night without being stopped many times. From then on in they have continued to alienate themselves.

A lot of the guys I went to school with, some who used to be very close friends are now involved with these organisations. They're not one bit interested in furthering the campaign for a united Ireland. They do it for the drugs, the money, the racketeering, the smuggling and some do it so they can walk around the streets with an AK47 slung over their shoulder, wearing a balaclava and looking hard. They are idiots.

 

[TJM]

From my understanding these dissidents have tried several times to force the situation into their hands, but have so far been largely unsuccessful. I don't see how they hope to achieve their goal by inciting terror and striking fear in to the hearts of the people on their own streets. For me it seems as if they will forever be fighting a losing battle and seek to further damage their own reputations. How can they expect to be taken seriously as a group that wants social change when they have demonstrated little regard for the safety of their own society?

The dissidents plan to bring about a united Ireland by destabilising Northern Ireland in the hope that the British Government will eventually say 'Welp, this is too much trouble' and leave. Their half-baked strategy calls for provoking the security forces into doing something stupid that would once again alienate the nationalist community. This would undoubtedly result in the nationalist community suffering in some way, but the dissidents do not care. They believe their political agenda is more important than the safety or stability of society because destroying the status quo is the only way they will ever be in a position of power. Too bad for them that it will never work.

 

[Brian Stuart]

Inevitably if they aren't helped with the rehabilitation onto civvy street then quite likely a lot of them will go 'rogue', but also theres the fact that these orgonisations acted as the 'socially accepted' leaders, enforcers, and protectors of there given communities and are most likely whichever side there on held in high regard for there passion for there people.

Although these people are described as criminals there is a political agenda driving their actions so rehabilitation does not come into it. The social acceptability of them and their actions is open to question. In the early days it is accepted that PIRA had a lot of grass roots support as did the loyalist organizations, but over the years that support has dwindled. After the peace process got into its stride the social acceptability of the paramilitaries became even less, that is why they use strong arm tactics in their own communities.

 

[Alphane]

Although these people are described as criminals there is a political agenda driving their actions so rehabilitation does not come into it.

Perhaps but I think there is an arguement that people can be taught good politics make for happy communities bad politics make for death, destruction, pain ,sorrow, grief etc etc

The social acceptability of them and their actions is open to question. In the early days it is accepted that PIRA had a lot of grass roots support as did the loyalist organizations, but over the years that support has dwindled. After the peace process got into its stride the social acceptability of the paramilitaries became even less, that is why they use strong arm tactics in their own communities.

I'm pretty sure if the troubles did erupt again they'd probably crawl back out the wood work on both sides. And I imagine to this day there's still boys sitting alone cleaning there pistol praying to God for the day they can take there angst out on the other side as revenge for there Dead Uncle, Crippled Auntie, Killcrazy Cousin, lost wife child brother sister mother lover , unfortunatley the list goes on and grief and passion for revveng eare difficult 'demons' to deal with

 

[dbeckett]

And I imagine to this day there's still boys sitting alone cleaning there pistol praying to God for the day they can take there angst out on the other side as revenge for there Dead Uncle, Crippled Auntie, Killcrazy Cousin, lost wife child brother sister mother lover , unfortunatley the list goes on and grief and passion for revveng eare difficult 'demons' to deal with

Wouldn't say that was right at all, fair enough there are of course a few teenagers that still haven't gone through puberty wanting to get an adrenaline rush from violence but the vast majority of people including those who where involved in the fighting of the troubles don't want any kind of violence and want to live in peace. Most people have realized that revenge only leads to more violence and more hurt as the other side will use your revenge as an excuse to kill another innocent victim who may be one of your friends/family

 

[Alphane]

Wouldn't say that was right at all, fair enough there are of course a few teenagers that still haven't gone through puberty wanting to get an adrenaline rush from violence but the vast majority of people including those who where involved in the fighting of the troubles don't want any kind of violence and want to live in peace. Most people have realized that revenge only leads to more violence and more hurt as the other side will use your revenge as an excuse to kill another innocent victim who may be one of your friends/family

Well they sound a lot happier and weller than the cathlic/orange couple across the street, they have absolutly no street smarts at all, he's been barred from mine for thieving and I've had to throw her out a couple of times for attacking him (was kinda funny one time when she bitchslapped and he dropped to the floor like he'd been poleaxed, I loled the big pussy) so anyway the scars of war can last for generations so despite the fact everyone making a good effort at being nice to each other it would be unwise I feel to not acknowledge that both sides are heavily emotionally scared from what has happened.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Nice cowardly attack by the Irish, I bet it was youngsters trying to stir up trouble, if they want a fight I am sure the British will give them one.

And a nice blinkered response by an Englishman if I may say so.

 

[Scream]

This attack was coming with over 30+ attacks/attempts taken place in the past year and especially the "very lucky" escape the police had the other week when they were nearly ambushed by 4 IRA soldiers only for an overhead helicopter spotted the terrorists with its thermal imaging equipment.

Sir Hugh Orde got slatted on Thursday by Sinn Fein and the SDLP for recalling the help of Special Forces to NI due to the large number of attacks that has happened and to take place and they even called for Sir Hugh Orde's resignation.

I think those two partys can hide their faces today as Sir Hugh Orde was spot on.

 

[ringo747]

This attack was coming with over 30+ attacks/attempts taken place in the past year and especially the "very lucky" escape the police had the other week when they were nearly ambushed by 4 IRA soldiers only for an overhead helicopter spotted the terrorists with its thermal imaging equipment.

Did that story not make the news? Don't remember reading it. Where did it happen?

 

[teaboy5]

This attack was coming with over 30+ attacks/attempts taken place in the past year and especially the "very lucky" escape the police had the other week when they were nearly ambushed by 4 IRA soldiers only for an overhead helicopter spotted the terrorists with its thermal imaging equipment.

Sir Hugh Orde got slatted on Thursday by Sinn Fein and the SDLP for recalling the help of Special Forces to NI due to the large number of attacks that has happened and to take place and they even called for Sir Hugh Orde's resignation.

I think those two partys can hide their faces today as Sir Hugh Orde was spot on.

Where you getting this information?

 

[Art]

Seems the Real IRA have claimed responsibility for it.