World Trade Center Dust Contains Evidence of Explosives

[TerryWogan]

What the hell is this open minded you're talking about?

Reviewing the overwhelming evidence against this conspiracy theory being possible and drawing the conclusion that it just didn't happen is, in my opinion, being as open minded as absolutely possible. What am I supposed to do? Accept the conspiracy theory anyway, just to be 'open minded'? The evidence is there, and it doesn't support this theory. Simple as that.

I'm not naive, I know all about the press - I have a degree in journalism. I also know a lot about the shady workings in many governments, and I believe the US government are doing things at Area 51, but I don't believe they blew up the WTC. Your 'open minded' idea is complete ****.

 

[TerryWogan]

Maybe not being so quick to dismiss theorys just because they said crazy.

How are we being quick? Have we read the 'evidence' too quickly? I've read it all, and I still think it's rubbish. There's nothing quick about it. Thinking about it for another couple of hours isn't going to change my mind, no matter how 'open minded' I remain.

 

[nikebee]

I've also now read the article and the suggestion is that there were materials with thermic properties which as both aardvark and the paper itself say occur fairly commonly. It even highlights welding as a possible cause which a steel structure of any notable size will have had done.

Indeed and I agree totally on that.

I'm doubtless being picky here but you've entertained the possibility that it could be true, not the fact. In asking to prove it wasn't a conspiracy you are asking for proof of a negative which is a whole lot more difficult in such matters - just because there is not conclusive proof that there is not a conspiracy theory doesn't mean that more credence should be given to the preposition that it is.

I'd agree that entertaining the possibility is fine as is making your own mind up but you shouldn't look to it as being true without question either.

I'm not asking for proof in either matter, I'm merely saying the fact that while the thoughts of it is a conspiracy hasn't been ruled out you can't say that every article about a conspiracy is false (whether this one is or not is neither here no there as far as I'm concerned, but if your asking I'm part of the "this article is probably a load of tosh" group).

I'm not trying to give conspiracy theories more weight simply because we cannot rule some of them out, I'm just trying to get my point across that whilst we cannot be sure about either matter it's only fair that we look into each side of it fairly whether it's 9/11 or the Moon Landing.

semi-pro you seem to echo my thoughts, just the other way around. I don't want people to look at a conspiracy theory and give it more weight, but I don't want them to look at the "truth" and give it more weight in an arguement in matters that we cannot be 100% sure on.

If a conspiracy theory is a load of crap, then that's all it is. But I'm just annoyed and worried that too many people in this world don't bother to make up their own minds on many matters and seem to just follow the crowd.

I myself believe 9/11 was a terrible tragedy and believe just like the vast majority do that it was a terrorist attack - however I also have an element of doubt that we are not being told the whole truth by our Governments and while I believe that I'll continue to look at these conspiracy theories and weigh them up in my head and see if any of them hold any merit.

 

[mcast123]

Maybe not being so quick to dismiss theorys just because they said crazy.

I can see why people start believing this, the conspiracy theorists use a fair amount of viral marketing to get noticed, they then suck people in with their "esteemed scientist" drivel.

If you're eager for a conspiracy theory, how about this...the conspiracy theorists are making money from ads when you visit their affiliated sites, the more people "believe" the more money they make. This thread alone probably generated a few hundred hits for that rawnews site. one may go as far and theorise that individuals that start these threads are actually being paid themselves.

"makes you wonder"

 

[Mulder]

Here's my favourite bit of evidence that is dismissed as being rubbish.

The fires burnt so hot that we're told this melted steel which held the floors, and thus started the collapse. We're also told a hijacker passport was found in the rubble and was still in tact as to identify the holder.

Hmmmmm.

 

[ringo747]

I think its all very interesting and everyone has their own take on what happened but one thing i do remember reading was that some relatives of the top government official was working on the lift doing repairs in the weeks before hand. The claim was that they lined the insides of the lift shaft with explosives. I refuse to take sides as we just cannot know for sure but it does make an interesting debate! Personally I cannot see how a plane strike can bring a building of this size down so fast. The other building collapsing with the others beside it still standing is just weird.

 

[TerryWogan]

I can see why people start believing this, the conspiracy theorists use a fair amount of viral marketing to get noticed, they then suck people in with their "esteemed scientist" drivel.

If you're eager for a conspiracy theory, how about this...the conspiracy theorists are making money from ads when you visit their affiliated sites, the more people "believe" the more money they make. This thread alone probably generated a few hundred hits for that rawnews site. one may go as far and theorise that individuals that start these threads are actually being paid themselves.

"makes you wonder"

Are you implying that there could be a bunch of PROFESSIONAL Conspiracy Theorists? SURELY NOT! NEVER! NO WAY!

Oh, wait...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(film)

 

[Inquisitor]

Here's my favourite bit of evidence that is dismissed as being rubbish.

The fires burnt so hot that we're told this melted steel which held the floors, and thus started the collapse. We're also told a hijacker passport was found in the rubble and was still in tact as to identify the holder.

Hmmmmm.

Well I guess the fires must have been localized or something then. I don't really see what the problem is here.

 

[RDM]

Here's my favourite bit of evidence that is dismissed as being rubbish.

Technically that's two bits of evidence...

The fires burnt so hot that we're told this melted steel which held the floors, and thus started the collapse.

It doesn't have to be hot enough to melt steel. It has to be hot enough to weaken the steel enough that the massive weight of the floor above and the force of mavity are enough to start the collapse. Take out a large chunk of the supporting structure with a plane too and you have all you need to initiate the collapse.

We're also told a hijacker passport was found in the rubble and was still in tact as to identify the holder.

Not as far fetched as it first seems, there is a suprising amount of debris left from many a plane crash.

 

[TerryWogan]

Personally I cannot see how a plane strike can bring a building of this size down so fast. The other building collapsing with the others beside it still standing is just weird.

Why? Are you a structural engineer/demolition expert? Personally, I have no idea whether or not a building like the WTC should come down that fast, so I don't really have an opinion.

However, it did come down that fast. I saw it on the telly.

 

[Redmelo]

remove please.

 

[Redmelo]

I can't believe how retarded people are - did they not see the footage of the great big jumbo jet that crashed into the building?

A secret government agency did not plant explosives all over the building and a missile was not fired at the pentagon - does anyone realise how much planning would be involved in either and how many people would have to have been involved - as if even a hanful of US service personnel would get involved in blowing up their own fellow service men in the pentagon or civilians in New York - let alone the numbers required to have planned, prepared and pulled off both of these attacks.

@ people who believe in this **** - you really have failed at life tbh...

http://drjudywood.com/articles/scientific/JonesScientificMethod.html

I cant believe how retarded YOU are!
I'm not saying that any of this thermite stuff is true, but your arguments are amazingly stupid.
Naivety, look it up.

"you really have failed at life tbh..."

 

[Mulder]

Technically that's two bits of evidence...

Technically, you're right, have a cookie.

It doesn't have to be hot enough to melt steel. It has to be hot enough to weaken the steel enough that the massive weight of the floor above and the force of mavity are enough to start the collapse. Take out a large chunk of the supporting structure with a plane too and you have all you need to initiate the collapse.



Not as far fetched as it first seems, there is a suprising amount of debris left from many a plane crash.

You seem to have missed my point. A plane hits a building, explodes and starts a fire so intense that it melts (or weakens, they're just 2 different points on the same scale) steel. A paper passport that is inside the plane somehow manages to escape all this and be found sometime later on top of all the debris in tact.

 

[nikebee]

I can't believe how retarded people are - did they not see the footage of the great big jumbo jet that crashed into the building?

A secret government agency did not plant explosives all over the building and a missile was not fired at the pentagon - does anyone realise how much planning would be involved in either and how many people would have to have been involved - as if even a hanful of US service personnel would get involved in blowing up their own fellow service men in the pentagon or civilians in New York - let alone the numbers required to have planned, prepared and pulled off both of these attacks.

@ people who believe in this **** - you really have failed at life tbh...

http://drjudywood.com/articles/scientific/JonesScientificMethod.html

Oh dear lord grow up!

I cant believe how retarded YOU are!
I'm not saying that any of this thermite stuff is true, but your arguments are amazingly stupid.
Naivety, look it up.

"you really have failed at life tbh..."

Totally agree.

I don't mind people voicing their opinions but there's no need to be such a jackass about it. Dowie you have completely proved my post about how threads like this often turn into a thread were it seems some people are 6 years old again. "OMG YOUR ALL IDIOTS! I'M RIGHT SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!"

 

[Inquisitor]

People like you are just proving Nikebee's point. You haven't put any of your own thought into this. It's all very well looking at some post on a forum and naysaying it carte blanche, but even when it's backed up by a dozen or so scientists from esteemed institutions? What I'd like to know is this - what stops you from taking ten seconds to think that maybe there could be something in this? I'm not talking about a full-blown acceptance, but even the shard of an idea that there could be more to it than Al-Quaeda and what you're told by the media.

Quite. Regardless of the validity of these claims, it seems that a lot of people are guilty of exactly the same closed-mindedness as conspiracists are, and readily dismiss out of hand any argument that disagrees with their convictions that there wasn't a conspiracy.

Someone who is truly impartial will consider equally evidence presented for either side.

 

[nikebee]

You seem to have missed my point. A plane hits a building, explodes and starts a fire so intense that it melts (or weakens, they're just 2 different points on the same scale) steel. A paper passport that is inside the plane somehow manages to escape all this and be found sometime later on top of all the debris in tact.

Mulder where did you hear this passport malarky? I'd quite like to read that.

I've read all the intense fire stuff myself before, the whole "It burned too hot to be jet fuel fire" etc... and that's generally where people start talking about Thermite in the past.

I've never heard this passport business though; got any links?

 

[Inquisitor]

Technically, you're right, have a cookie.



You seem to have missed my point. A plane hits a building, explodes and starts a fire so intense that it melts (or weakens, they're just 2 different points on the same scale) steel. A paper passport that is inside the plane somehow manages to escape all this and be found sometime later on top of all the debris in tact.

Read my earlier post. How do you know the fire engulfed everything inside the plane?

 

[RDM]

You seem to have missed my point. A plane hits a building, explodes and starts a fire so intense that it melts (or weakens, they're just 2 different points on the same scale) steel. A paper passport that is inside the plane somehow manages to escape all this and be found sometime later on top of all the debris in tact.

Because when the plane hit it didn't stay intact, it, and the contents of it, literally flew all over the place. Did you not see the huge amount of debris when the plan hit? While the majority of it will have been the building quite a lot of it would also have been plane and contents of plane.

 

[likwid]

Someone who is truly impartial will consider equally evidence presented for either side.

The problem is the validity of the evidence presented by the conspiracy theorists never holds up to scrutiny. Do you feel this new evidence has been investigated thoroughly enough for you to accept it as true?

 

[RDM]

Someone who is truly impartial will consider equally evidence presented for either side.

I would disagree, you consider the evidence on its merits, not consider all evidene equally. In this case there is very little merit to the evidence.