MONACO Grand Prix 2009 - Race 6/17 Official GP Thread

stockhausen said:
That presumably will be after Mansell had been thoroughly stitched up by Prost at Ferrari and will also be the year that we saw Mansell (in a Williams) race wheel-to-wheel with Senna (in a McLaren) down the straight at 200mph and then saw Mansell give Senna a ride back to the pits on his side-pod.

Two of the most memorable moments in F1; worth every last penny I would say ;)
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yeah that mansell/senna overtake at 200mph has to be one of the best ever on cam, inches apart, sparks flying great to watch
 
Mr Jack said:
Yeah, he'd been around a while but, hey, Lewis equalled Alonso in his very first season..
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In a VERY good car yes

rest of that is irrelevant - Button wasnt allowed to drive equally against Trulli or MS at all in the same car so there is no way of knowing


Mr Jack said:
Quite possibly, but if Button was truly top tier it really wouldn't have mattered. Look at what the great drivers have achieved. If you've got the talent it will tell
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As it is this year - without a lot of the gadgets of the last few years, on wrong tyres in the wrong weather and he STILL wins and beats his team mate hands down

Mr Jack said:
Look at what Trulli was doing with the car in the two seasons. It was an about equal car.
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Briatore was managing them both - he didnt with Button.


Mr Jack said:
But, of course, as you've argued for 3 seasons now, not being "in with the team" means you're never going to go anywhere.
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No only the Renault years was he really out , I think FB just wanted someone relatively cheap until Alonso could get to the team, FB knobbled Button good and proper

Williams was a good car for the 1st season Button was in F1 (not a decent one mind) - no way it can be compared to the McLaren and its ease of driving

unless you mean 1st year at BAR, well Button did prove it without a shadow of a doubt by having a car designed for JV which Button slaughtered him with - which ever way you look at it thats impressive esp given the difference in experience


I never suggested that Button was to the level of Senna / Prost etc but doesnt mean he cant be a great in his own right
 
FrankJH said:
In a VERY good car yes
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In the same car more to the point; best comparison for any driver is what they manage against their team mate. Button's record is patchy on that front.

rest of that is irrelevant - Button wasnt allowed to drive equally against Trulli or MS at all in the same car so there is no way of knowing
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MS? Button never raced in the same car as MS, he was with Ralfy - who beat him.

No only the Renault years was he really out , I think FB just wanted someone relatively cheap until Alonso could get to the team, FB knobbled Button good and proper
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Oh come on. No way FB was going to completely knobble someone in his own team. No way he'd compromise a whole constructors championship season like that. Trulli may have been favoured over Button but had he been as quick as, say, MS, Lewis or Alonso he would have shown Trulli up in quick time and been backed by the team.

I never suggested that Button was to the level of Senna / Prost etc but doesnt mean he cant be a great in his own right
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I like Button, I think he's a good driver. But he's far from the best driver currently on the grid and win this season (as it looks like he will and I hope he does) or not, he won't prove himself a great.
 
Mr Jack said:
From Wikipedia (emphasis added)
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That was after getting nobbled by prost dirty tactic in the ferrari, after that I wouldn't blame him. When they bought prost to williams he quit rather than have him as a team mate again.

Type_R said:
Its not enough to try and compare LH with JB, because LH is driving a dog of a car, similar probably to the car JB was driving last year, yet he is getting results...enough said!
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I love the way people keep claiming this Mclaren is anything like comparable to the dogs BAR Honda built for JB. The mclaren has already made great strides and is a top 8 car.

Mr Jack said:
Oh come on. No way FB was going to completely knobble someone in his own team. No way he'd compromise a whole constructors championship season like that. Trulli may have been favoured over Button but had he been as quick as, say, MS, Lewis or Alonso he would have shown Trulli up in quick time and been backed by the team..
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That is exactly what Flav does. He couldn't get Button to sign so he started on him. Trulli went for a new team and he did everything he could to run him down. Wasn't it fisi who ditched him as manager only then to find he was ignored in the team.

I find Flvs duel duties as a driver manager and team manager clouds his support and I think it's a practice that shouldn't be allowed. He makes personal gain from favouring one of his drivers compared to another.
 
dannyjo22 said:
I love the way people keep claiming this Mclaren is anything like comparable to the dogs BAR Honda built for JB. The mclaren has already made great strides and is a top 8 car.
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Perhaps only with LH driving ;)

It's been a dog since day 1 this year.. they didn't make Q3 on the last race, is that a sign of a top 8 car?
 
First reaction to that is good on 'em.

Hello everyone by the way, hope your fortnights break has been good :)
 
SoliD said:
is JV deluded ? http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/75508
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Extremely deluded. The cars are made for him in next years and even this years format. Sadly though he's not in his late 20's anymore. One of the bravest overtakers and the hardest driver I've ever seen to pass. Clean and fair but now way way too old.

That said I bet you a fiver a new team runs him, purely for exposure.
 
Demon said:
Perhaps only with LH driving ;)

It's been a dog since day 1 this year.. they didn't make Q3 on the last race, is that a sign of a top 8 car?
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They are just heavy filling him, the low fuel run in qfy doesn't seem to suit him at all. When the cars heavy it's much better.

The mclaren isn't that bad, not BAR bad just a slow start to the season. Mclaren and it's resources are in no way comparable to BAR.

I know Mclaren fans seem to want to think that this year so they can talk up the messiah.
 
JV said:
"There is a part of me that is very happy because I built that team up.

"There is a little bit of pride there, and it shows that it wasn't a bad project in the long run. But there is a little bit of a bitter aspect because it is other people reaping the fruit of it all, but that is how it is."
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HAHA, before opening that JV link, I knew, just knew he'd mention "doing his bit" or "building up the team" even though it was over 6 years ago!

What an idiot.
 
Duke said:
HAHA, before opening that JV link, I knew, just knew he'd mention "doing his bit" or "building up the team" even though it was over 6 years ago!

What an idiot.
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But he is 100% correct without him BAR was not going to happen. The condition of getting it up and running in the first place was he came onboard. Pollock called in the favour after JV begged pollock to be his manager in the beginning.

As I said before if you read the books on the start and building up of BAR you would see that lots of people put a lot of effort into brackley and bringing in the right people.

Fry always gets slaughtered, pitpass love having a go at him. Yet he's the man that got Brawn in. I'm sure lots of people from the past take pride in whats happened. He was asked a question and he answered it.
 
Flibster said:
Breaking news...

ALL teams to withdraw from the 2010 season if the proposed £40 million budget cap is not dropped.

:eek:
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Oh, but of course it's only The Almighty Satanic Evil That Is Ferrari™ who are throwing their toys out of the pram and being childish about this complete non-issue according to certain folks on here....

I don't expect everyone to like Ferrari - after all, we all support who we support and I find McLaren fairly objectionable so it'd be reasonably hypocritical of me to say you should all like Ferrari. But damn it all, *everyone* should at least see that in this regard they do have a pretty ******* good point! especially given that they aren't exactly alone in this. Two-tier* formulae = not Formula One. Budget caps of derisory (in modern F1 terms) sums = not Formula One. If you want to bugger about to that extent, then change the Grand Prix World Championship to use another bloody formula! They've done it before, why not do it again?

* - the last time this was done was 2006, when they let STR run a rev-limited 3.0 V10 despite the main rules only allowing 2.4 V8s. Before that, there was the last throes of the turbo era when the 'atmo' cars competed for the Jim Clark Cup. Every other occasion, it's been two different Formulae racing at the same time rather than one Formula divided in two.
 
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