Istanbul - TURKEY Grand Prix 2009 - Race 7/17

CS||nuTs I think the tyre wear 'issue' mentioned isn't completely unfounded from a neutrals view point on past races anyway. From previous races it seems the RBR is probably the best car on tracks with high speed corners which has been suggested contributes to the tyre wear, and in addition to this at wet tracks the RBR has performed well again. In the wet races it seems that the RBR was better at getting tyre temperature compared to say Brawn who seemed to have difficulty in wet conditions due to being 'lighter' on their tyres. This latest performance from RBR at Turkey seems to back up the previous information too.

Having said that, it just pure speculation on my part and you're in a much better position to comment on. Anyway, I hope Vettel wins tomorrow and that Webber gets a good result, I don't want the season to be over too soon. :p
 
Would be happy with a Brawn or RBR success tomorrow. We quite like Vettel so I'll be interested to see what he can do from pole.
 
CS||nuTs said:
Love to know where you get your info from,i assume you are judging our cars performance on Monaco where we first ran a interim diffuser? Guess what sherlock, Monaco is notorious for eating tyres,let alone on a untested diffuser set-up.
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I think that comes from the races where a red bull got caught behind another car and then started eating tyres. More a problem being behind another car than an problem with the car eating tyres.

I think it looks worse because Jenson is just so good on his tyres, when you look at rubens though he is wearing them out as much as the red bulls as everyone else.

I'm interested to see how Vettel goes tommorow because I think he's been making a few mistakes in the dry lately and for the sake of your bonus it would be nice to see him take a dry win ;)

Plus you never going to see me tip jenson for a win because the one time I did this year instead of rubens he didn't win :D

So rubens for the win!
 
dannyjo22 said:
So rubens for the win!
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YAY!!!! Someone else with the BELIEF!!! :D

Yeah im tipping him for the win as they should really do fuel and tyre corrected quali times.... (rubens used the hards for q3 when most the people around him used the softs which was slightly faster i think)

But yeah this wont be the best race of the season... (mainly as im going to newcastle co down and missing it live...)
 
There's only two ways Rubens is going to win a race this season: if someone crashes in Button, or if Button's car suffer somes kind of failure. He's simply outclassed in any kind of striaght contest.

I hope he proves me wrong.
 
dannyjo22 said:
If it was still 10-6-4 I would agree with you but all it takes is a couple of DNFs and Rubens to score highly and Rubens is leading the title.

I would find it higly amusing if button won 10 races this year and unreliability had rubens nick it with 3 wins. The British press would go nuts and bernie would keep saying told you so for his medal system :D

10-8 never makes it as clear cut when you have reliabilty to consider.
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The Brawn isnt unreliable though - and as for ragged driving, its more Rubens that is likely to throw it off the track (look at Aus for one example of damaging his own car etc)

Qualifying its also 6-1 in Button's favour, and Rubens rarely has the same race pace either

What you are saying is still possible - I just cant see anywhere /how it can happen, there isnt one area where Button is slower when it matters

6 races gone and 16 points different , and 4 of those where Brawns came in effectively one behind the other (Bahrain and Malaysia where Rubens had several cars in betwen him and JB) , IF JB is to win ten races - ie 5 more, the points total is likely to be 26 points at a Minimum at some point in the season - esp with both Red Bull on most tracks being faster race pace than Rubens (and sometimes Jenson too)

With Ferrari and Red Bull getting better and better with each passing race, at some point Ross will HAVE to say JB or RB is the lead driver, both those teams are capable of mutiple wins in the next few outings and Ross has to do what is right for the team as a whole

pingwing said:
Yeah im tipping him for the win as they should really do fuel and tyre corrected quali times.... (rubens used the hards for q3 when most the people around him used the softs which was slightly faster i think)
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Could disadvantage Rubens further, as the hard's are meant to be better for the race and therefore he will have one less new set than everyone else (most front runners will start on softs though I would guess - best to get off the line, and also 15 -18 laps is a pretty short stint)
 
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Few titbits of news:


With Williams and Force India on their own after filing unconditional FIA paperwork, the F1 teams' alliance FOTA has moved to ensure its unity is not further eroded.

Martin Brundle, a former driver and now a broadcaster for British TV, wrote in his column for the Sunday Times that the manufacturers face a crippling penalty if they break ranks and pledge to the 2010 world championship before a block compromise is brokered.

"Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz, Toyota, Renault and BMW have signed a $50m bond not to jump ship and enter the 2010 championship unconditionally within the next 30 days," Brundle claimed.

In the hours before the Turkish Grand Prix, a breakaway world championship seems more likely than ever. Max Mosley seems unwilling to back down over budget caps, and now boasts famous names like Williams, March, Brabham and Lotus for his 2010 grid.



Theoretically in another series will be grandee marques like Ferrari and McLaren, not to mention the likely 2009 world champions Brawn GP, who for now are openly supportive of the FOTA stance.

"Somebody is going to have to capitulate for the sake of the sport," Brundle insisted.

Interestingly, those close to Brundle could benefit from Mosley's 'new' F1: his brother Robin is a Director of prospective 2010 entrant Lola, and his 18-year-old son is currently racing in F2, the FIA's preferred feeder category to the world championship.

"I hope my son and brother can experience F1 as I have been privileged to do, but I don't want F1 diluted too much," he wrote.
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Even without current grandees like Ferrari and McLaren, Formula One could potentially have yet another famous name on the 2010 grid.

After entrants bearing the names March and Brabham - despite having no connection with their founders - lodged paperwork for next year's budget-capped championship, it has now emerged that F3 team Litespeed intends to race under the famed Team Lotus branding.

Litespeed's chiefs Nino Judge and Steve Kenchington worked with the English marque in Formula One; Judge in aerodynamics and structure testing in 1989-1991, and Kenchington on suspension and control systems for 21 years.

They confirmed this weekend that they have been granted permission from rights holder David Hunt to use the Team Lotus name in 2010 and beyond.

"Litespeed was born from a similar British background - a factor that was at the core of Colin Chapman's beliefs and subsequent success," said Judge, who would base the team in Norfolk at a facility used previously for Le Mans projects.

The original Lotus, founded by designer Chapman who died in 1982, was also based in Norfolk .



Also involved in the new Team Lotus project is well-known F1 engineer Mike Gascoyne, while former Lotus driver Johnny Herbert has been recruited as commercial ambassador and driver manager.

Team Lotus, boasting drivers including Jim Clark, Ayrton Senna and Mika Hakkinen, won 13 drivers' and constructors' titles, and 73 Grand Prix, and last raced in Australia in 1994.
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one question about car development.

did brawn develop their car as honda using wind tunnels etc before they were all banned, or did everyone get to use them? are wind tunnels etc just banned for mid season testing?
 
NathanE said:
I wish they'd bring back James Allen. He was sooo much better than Leggard :(
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Good god no. Think of the children!


sunama said:
3. With minimal testing, the car is one of the most reliable. In fact, I dont think I've seen/heard any reliability problems from the BrawnGP cars. Normally, miles and miles of testing is what irons out reliability problems. Not so with the BrawnGP.
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http://www.pitpass.com/src/seasons/2009/statistics/teamreliability.php :cool:

(/touches wood)
 
FrankJH said:
With Ferrari and Red Bull getting better and better with each passing race, at some point Ross will HAVE to say JB or RB is the lead driver, both those teams are capable of mutiple wins in the next few outings and Ross has to do what is right for the team as a whole
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The trouble is it's going to take far too long to be mathmatically impossible for rubens to not win the title. I honestly believe Rubens won't help him until that point. He said himself he would rather walk away than find himself in that position again. I believe him. He's had years in the sport and is at the end anyway, he no longer has to toe the line to maintain his career.

It worries me that one day we will see a driver win 8 or more races and lose to a driver that's come second the whole year and wins 1 or 2 races when the driver thats won a bucket load has reliability issues out of his control.

Granted it can work the other way, like alonso's first title when he won a few races in the beginning and they defended the lead coming second losing just two points at a time.
 
dannyjo22 said:
It worries me that one day we will see a driver win 8 or more races and lose to a driver that's come second the whole year and wins 1 or 2 races when the driver thats won a bucket load has reliability issues out of his control.
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Does this mean that you are supportive of the FIA's idea to award the title to the driver who wins the most races, as opposed to the driver who scores the most points?
 
sunama said:
Does this mean that you are supportive of the FIA's idea to award the title to the driver who wins the most races, as opposed to the driver who scores the most points?
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To be honest both systems are rubbish. The best would be a point system with significant point differences. IE 20, 14, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1. The point difference for first could be even greater due to the higher starting value, but there should be a big reward for coming first. I don't feel the current system gives enough reward for the win.

If you won 5 races and then had a failure, with the same driver coming 2nd and winning in your absence:

Old system - You are equal on points
Suggested system - You would still lead by 10 points
 
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dannyjo22 said:
The trouble is it's going to take far too long to be mathmatically impossible for rubens to not win the title. I honestly believe Rubens won't help him until that point. He said himself he would rather walk away than find himself in that position again. I believe him. He's had years in the sport and is at the end anyway, he no longer has to toe the line to maintain his career.

It worries me that one day we will see a driver win 8 or more races and lose to a driver that's come second the whole year and wins 1 or 2 races when the driver thats won a bucket load has reliability issues out of his control.

Granted it can work the other way, like alonso's first title when he won a few races in the beginning and they defended the lead coming second losing just two points at a time.
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I dont think it will take that long - bwcause of other teams getting upto scratch (finally lol ) these teams will to start with be coming inbetween the two brawns on race pace - I hope everyone can agree there seems to be a quite a big margin between the two brawns nearly every race day - yes of course there will be some wins for Red Bull and probably Ferrari too at some point, Ferrari especially are more likely to be ending up between the Brawns, and maybe Mark Webber too ( rather than MW being defacto in front with Vettel when he wins as he is bound to)

I understand your point and I would hate what you are proposing to happen (to anyone let alone JB - it would be even worse if he where to loose the title due to those 5 points "lost" for the 1/2 distance race earlier in the season - I just cant see it playing out like that......crosses fingers it doesnt anyway

When I read RB's statement about team orders, I understood him to mean during the beginnning of the season when either could win the title - IF I am right and at some point he loses enough finishing positions to Button to be mathmatically impossible to win the title, I dont think he would complain about team orders - or even more unlikely if the CWC was under threat (in fact with a few 1-2's or 1-3's for Red Bull this might be the case), IF of course you are correct and he can challange for the DWC to the end of the season, Im sure Ross will allow him to
 
PikeyPriest said:
Old system - You are equal on points
Suggested system - You would still lead by 10 points
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Remember of course that the winner of 5 races would still be leading by merit of the number of wins - so that is still important

I actually favour reliability over outright pace (to a certain degree)

I mean as its still pretty hard to overtake in F1 (without the added expense , difficult to install/manage) Kers, if the guy in 2nd has been absolutely slaughtered by the winner in all the races and comes in 1/2 a lap behind or something then it would seem a lot harsher to be equal on points for a single failure imo than if you both crossed the line toe to tail for the five races you both finished
 
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