The all encompassing BNP thread - keep all crap in here.

You should check the "Equality Bill" then ...

You should too. You should also check my post where I mentioned it. It kicks in if both candidates are equal. As an aside I don't agree with it for many reasons, the prime one being it is just a bad law which would be really hard to both prove and enforce.

This would allow employers to positively discriminate towards a certain ethnic group or sex so that their overall company structure reflects the local society demographic...

Including white males...
 
Backlash grows against US race quotas


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/backlash-grows-against-us-race-quotas-1572828.html

The two academics launched their campaign principally because they believe affirmative action is destroying higher education. They point to the high drop-out rate from college (some two out of three black students do not graduate); the stigma suffered by minority students who achieve success through their own efforts; the failure to achieve anything for the poor. "It is totally subversive to the idea of university education," said Mr Custred. "It does far more harm than good."

White businessman have complained for years that contracts are being farmed out to minority firms simply to satisfy affirmative-action quotas


The Liberal Democrat peer will chair a panel of advisers selected by Jack Straw, the Justice Secretary, to propose ways to speed up the appointment of judges who are not white men. She has not ruled out considering quotas.

However, such a move would go against the views of the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Judge, who just last month rejected the idea, saying he wanted judges to be appointed on "merit" alone.
 
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But you would have no course of redress if you were a white male if you didn't get the job, whereas you would if you were female or ethnic. That is the crux of this law.

Hardly 'fair' is it?

If you are female or ethnic and a white male got the job to balance out the diversity of a department, you wouldn't have course of redress either.

I'm not in favour of this Bill in anything except forced pay audits for public contracts and companies who have lost sex discrimination claims. But what has been lost in this, is that the recruitment decisions which people are fearing are already in operation. When there are two equally qualified candidates, discretion is already used on who would be the best fit for the department or company based on all these factors and more.


You wouldn't have thought it possible in the planets most racist nation...
 
Academic performance is hardly an accurate representation of intelligence. While it may be the 'best', and I lose this term very loosely, the method available to us, it is by no means an accurate method.
Time for me to rip your post apart point by point
It is widely dependent on an immense amount of variables such as tendency to that particular subject
Which is why you do multiple subjects, and eventually only do the subjects you like / are good at ... clearly if you are applying to for a job in Accountancy but you have really back French grades it is a non-issue.
apathy to other subjects bringing down the average grade
Again same as above, you do multiple subjects each has it's own grade (who looks at average grades in this country? Average grades are the Yankee system rather than our system that has subject by subject grades).
If you are doing a levels then you are only doing 3 or 4 subjects, so you get to select the ones you like
style of teaching
There is NOT that much difference between one teacher and the next really
style of marking
If you can spell, have half decent grammar and put all the needed points down you get the marks ... that is how our system works and is fairly unbias and good.
On subjective subjects even if the marker does not share your point of view you are not marked on being right or wrong, but rather on being able to support the view taken with a well reasoned argument based on the evidence presented.
style of learning.
Do you need to be taught with picture cards or something? The old fashioned education system is the best thing around and has been tried and tested - where you write essays (paper or on PC) and do questions (ON PAPER). It is helpful now-a-days to have the information online but picking up a book now and then would not go amiss.

If it was such an absolute measure, why would companies and even universities even bother having personalized exams?
Because each university course is slightly different in it's content based on what the university in question does in its research and so on; and what specialist staff it has.
 
Including white males...

You rarely find that the company has too many ethnic people and not enough white people; so while it can work both ways in practice it would only ever work one way because it is deemed to be "fair".

I do not think that in the modern companies there is racism anymore - the people in the higher up positions are smart enough to know that they need to hire the best candidate possible rather than the white candidate. Gone are the 80s and 90s.
 
The concept that you can have "too many whites" in your company or "not enough ethnics" seriously disturbs me. Surely all that matters is whether you have enough competant employees.

Disclaimer: not a BNP supporter.
 
Could I have a source for that please? I've checked the constitution of the BPA and can't see anything in it to exclude white members but maybe I'm missing something obvious?

Mr Davies, 38, told them the Black Police Association should do more to 'build trust and mutual respect between members of all races and religions within the force.'
He added :'To me it is a shame that full membership of the BPA is open only to those of black, Asian or Middle Eastern origin.
'Tackling racism and unfair treatment of ethnic minorities is something which is taken seriously by members of every race in the police force and yet the clear implication of such a policy is that white people do not share this concern.'
He said many white officers mistrusted the BPA because they were denied membership by a policy which 'would be unacceptable and probably illegal in virtually any other organisation in this country.'
Commenting on the race row embroiling the Metropolitan Police, Mr Davies pulled no punches.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5034532.ece
 
The concept that you can have "too many whites" in your company or "not enough ethnics" seriously disturbs me. Surely all that matters is whether you have enough competant employees.

Disclaimer: not a BNP supporter.
Just wondering why you had to say your not a BNP supporter?
 
Just wondering why you had to say your not a BNP supporter?

Probably because of the nature of the anti-bnp mob both in this thread and in the real world - say anything even remotely capable of being mis-construed as having racial connotations and you get accused of being racist.

Sad times when you have to fear being taken out of context and add disclaimers to simple statements just to pre-empt an over-the-top backlash-style response to a forum post....
 
Which is why you do multiple subjects, and eventually only do the subjects you like / are good at ... clearly if you are applying to for a job in Accountancy but you have really back French grades it is a non-issue.

lol. Have you looked at graduate schemes for accountancy? a friend of mine has, and they are similar to those for law. i.e - A levels matter. subject does not. If you have below a B in an a-level for example, regardless of your other a levels or even uni results, a number of graduate schemes wont even look at you. So no, it is not a non-issue.

Again same as above, you do multiple subjects each has it's own grade (who looks at average grades in this country? Average grades are the Yankee system rather than our system that has subject by subject grades).
If you are doing a levels then you are only doing 3 or 4 subjects, so you get to select the ones you like

Even then though, its not just one subject. It has different modules. For example if you have an immense interest in german history, but don't care about say italian history, you are obviously going to focus on one rather than the other. You have one exam on the topic you like, and get above 90%. But then you have one in something you hate and get low marks. Overall score for that subject - pulled down.

There is NOT that much difference between one teacher and the next really

There really is. I've studied in various schools all over India as well as in London. You have certain teachers who make a boring subject interesting and make you want to study it while you have others who are just so bad they even take the fun out of a subject you used to be intersted in. And if you don't like it because of a teacher, you won't study it and then won't do well.

If you can spell, have half decent grammar and put all the needed points down you get the marks ... that is how our system works and is fairly unbias and good.
On subjective subjects even if the marker does not share your point of view you are not marked on being right or wrong, but rather on being able to support the view taken with a well reasoned argument based on the evidence presented.

Yes, but whereas one marker may think you have put down all the points, another may not. While they may even be similar, they will not be the same. The point i'm making is that it is not an absolute.

Do you need to be taught with picture cards or something? The old fashioned education system is the best thing around and has been tried and tested - where you write essays (paper or on PC) and do questions (ON PAPER). It is helpful now-a-days to have the information online but picking up a book now and then would not go amiss.

While some people learn well with books and theory, others learn better with hands on experience and actually doing something rather than just reading about it. Personally, I prefer reading etc. but others don't. If the person prefer hands on and hates theory, then even if he is of an equal intelligence, he won't do as well because he just doesn't like the way it is taught.

Because each university course is slightly different in it's content based on what the university in question does in its research and so on; and what specialist staff it has.

Yes, but that only determines what the student can study. Not whether or not he can study there. Unless his intersts are widely different from what they can teach. But thats hardly a reason to have entrance exams. They do so because of a lack of faith in the standardization of A-levels.
 
Probably because of the nature of the anti-bnp mob both in this thread and in the real world - say anything even remotely capable of being mis-construed as having racial connotations and you get accused of being racist.

Sad times when you have to fear being taken out of context and add disclaimers to simple statements just to pre-empty an over-the-top backlash-style response to a forum post....

So whats its done is installed fear of speaking out, which then leads to frustration and then rise of racism.
Thats my whole point discrimination breeds discrimination, even if its positive.
 
Time for me to rip your post apart point by point

<SNIP WALL OF TEXT>

The OP had a valid point, the academic system in this country from Primary through to Secondary learning does not cater to those who fall into the "highly intelligent" category - typically those who's results in a standard IQ test return in the top two percent.

I myself fall into this category and had a terrible time at school - and that was back in the 1970/1980s when streaming of children by intelligence was positively promoted. The problem I (and many others) had, was that the academic system is too rigid and is structured around learning by repetition/memorisation and sticking to an inflexible syllabus. I was able to read and do basic maths before I went to school but I was held back by the teachers not wanting me to do better than those around me.

As a result I hated school and did poorly academically - as do lots of highly intelligent people - academic performance really is a poor indicator of intelligence level when you move out of the average population.
 
lol. Have you looked at graduate schemes for accountancy? a friend of mine has, and they are similar to those for law. i.e - A levels matter. subject does not. If you have below a B in an a-level for example, regardless of your other a levels or even uni results, a number of graduate schemes wont even look at you. So no, it is not a non-issue.
To be fair you do not expect a clever person to get below a B in an A-level given how the selected the subject in the first place

Even then though, its not just one subject. It has different modules. For example if you have an immense interest in german history, but don't care about say italian history, you are obviously going to focus on one rather than the other. You have one exam on the topic you like, and get above 90%. But then you have one in something you hate and get low marks. Overall score for that subject - pulled down.
Again, you are studying a subject not just one aspect of it. You are expected to be well versed in all the different areas of that subject.

There really is. I've studied in various schools all over India as well as in London. You have certain teachers who make a boring subject interesting and make you want to study it while you have others who are just so bad they even take the fun out of a subject you used to be intersted in. And if you don't like it because of a teacher, you won't study it and then won't do well.
Oh I've had plenty of boring teachers ... and yet here I am doing engineering despite having a really boring Physics teacher in school/6th form; an utterly evil Chemistry teacher and a **** as one of my Maths teachers. I loved all my Biology teachers though - and amazingly I'm not doing Biology.

Yes, but whereas one marker may think you have put down all the points, another may not. While they may even be similar, they will not be the same. The point i'm making is that it is not an absolute.
That only applies to non-scientific subjects really, and even there the A level system is designed in a pretty good way to prevent that. A selection of work is checked by other markers - and you get the chance to appeal the grade.
Even in the first place; the actual markers tend to be decent and will give you he mark if you deserve it.

While some people learn well with books and theory, others learn better with hands on experience and actually doing something rather than just reading about it. Personally, I prefer reading etc. but others don't. If the person prefer hands on and hates theory, then even if he is of an equal intelligence, he won't do as well because he just doesn't like the way it is taught.
And again scientific subjects will have some hands-on things - but in reality you cannot have a hands-on nuclear reactor in Physics...

Yes, but that only determines what the student can study. Not whether or not he can study there. Unless his intersts are widely different from what they can teach. But thats hardly a reason to have entrance exams. They do so because of a lack of faith in the standardization of A-levels.
Few subjects have an extra entrance exam (and at few universities).

The top places tend to have an extra test for medicine and maths because they get more applicants than they have places and because the A-level system is not geared to differentiate very well at the top end of the scale (well done there New Labour for wanting to make sure even stupid people pass). However this is not what we are talking about surely; we are discussing the middle group ... because if you are at the top end then you should be able to cope with an extra test.
 
The OP had a valid point, the academic system in this country from Primary through to Secondary learning does not cater to those who fall into the "highly intelligent" category - typically those who's results in a standard IQ test return in the top two percent.

I fall in to this bracket also but yet my Academic performance was far from brilliant does this mean that I am not intelligent? No of course it doesn't

BTW this isn't aimed at you ;)
 
Moley; things have changed since the 80s though.

It is better now; as is the system. True you might not be "stretched" at the top end ... but again if you are smart you should damn well be able to challenge yourself and learn things.
 
So whats its done is installed fear of speaking out, which then leads to frustration and then rise of racism.
Thats my whole point discrimination breeds discrimination, even if its positive.

You are right about discrimination breeding discrimination, but its dangerous to suggest that Fear of speaking out+frustration=rise of racism as this will not always be the case.

Fear of speaking out = frustration. True.

Frustration = sometimes uprising against that which you want to speak out about. True.

The point to remember is not everyone who gets frustrated actually acts out on that, some just buckle under the pressure and conform.
 
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