Section 59

Yeah but if people just "accept" things, that's how it all starts to get out of hand.

Now this copper will just stop another motorist, who probably did nothing wrong, and have a go at them as well. Maybe even lie some more.

Is there really nothing that can be done?

He had reason to stop me, I was technically speeding. I'm not even sure he has lied exactly, maybe he did brake (christ knows why).

Never once during the stop did he mention that he had to brake, it was all about what *could* have happened. Obviously my issue is the stretch of credibility required to interpret a safe overtake as potentially inconsiderate or careless. It comes down to discretion and interpretation.

I'm not going to court over this. It's annoying but I don't really want to go any further with it now. If I did win an appeal in court, I think it would actually make matters worse anyway and it turns out I'm not the only GT-R driver in Wales with a Section 59 either.

All the cool kids have one.
 
Yeah but if people just "accept" things, that's how it all starts to get out of hand.

very easy for you to say as the internet spectator. does pushing it further, the copper then trying to bring the speeding thing into play, maybe dangerous driving too, not sound like things getting out of hand? sounds like fett is dealing with something degenerate animal that is happy to lie at the drop of a hat.

i can imagine only retard would feel the need to brake if theyve been overtaken, you do get people like that, but a copper (presumably a traffic one with specific driver training...), that just rubbish. fett said it was a safe overtake

didnt know you could get an s59 for hooning/b road blasting though
 
So did you ask if there was video?

And for the people that say police dont pull people over because they are bored they are wrong. I used to drive a modified civic, and i used to get atleast one producer a week, and if i told the police i had only just handed in a producer the day before they didn't care. I was so happy when they could find out you was all legal just by your plate, and ive never been pulled since :)
 
When I had my R34 I got pulled and one of them asked me how fast I'd been in it. Wasn't sure what to say?
 
Man that has to suck, somehow I doubt im likely to get an envious cop pulling me given ive got a Civic. but the other week I found out that if a policeman offers me a warning I have to decline it and say if they want to take it further they have to do me for it. Apparently accepting a warning is accepting you did what they said you did and being a doctor this would automatically put me in front of the GMC for a fitness to practice hearing...So basically I would be forced to make them come steal my car if they wanted to give me an S59 because theyre having a bit of a shoddy day.

Hawker
 
So the cops have now turned into Judge Dredd :eek:

Personally I'd send a letter to the Chief Constable asking for a full explanation on which part of Section 3 of the RTA you had contravened and therefore given a Section 59.

They are totally out of control and need to remember they are there to enforce the existing law , not to make new ones :mad:
 
So the cops have now turned into Judge Dredd :eek:

Personally I'd send a letter to the Chief Constable asking for a full explanation on which part of Section 3 of the RTA you had contravened and therefore given a Section 59.

They are totally out of control and need to remember they are there to enforce the existing law , not to make new ones :mad:

Could do this, but the chief will no doubt stand by his constables tail of events and believe him over some guy driving a fast nissan.

Really really harsh fett :( But if you do ever get another one, let me know where you are and I will come and hijack it back for you, Layer Cake style :)
 
When I had my R34 I got pulled and one of them asked me how fast I'd been in it. Wasn't sure what to say?

you know what to say. "ive driven as fast as the speed limit" (whether you mean the speed limit on the sign at the side of the road or the electronic one on the car...)

but they will pretend to be friendly, but really they are asking you leading questions trying to make you admit to something they can pin you for.

make them work for their money, you wont beleive the stuff ive gotten away with
 
very easy for you to say as the internet spectator. does pushing it further, the copper then trying to bring the speeding thing into play, maybe dangerous driving too, not sound like things getting out of hand? sounds like fett is dealing with something degenerate animal that is happy to lie at the drop of a hat.


which is why he should wait until the 14 day limit for an NIP to be issued to pass first?

When I had my R34 I got pulled and one of them asked me how fast I'd been in it. Wasn't sure what to say?

That's when its handy to have been on an autobahn or track day :D
 
So did you ask if there was video?

There is definitely no video, that car is not fitted with any type of camera system. I would have pressed matters further at this stage if there was as a clip of the incident as it would put this to bed.

Personally I'd send a letter to the Chief Constable asking for a full explanation on which part of Section 3 of the RTA you had contravened and therefore given a Section 59.

The Chief Constable is Brunstrom. I'll let you decide if the ink used would be worth it.

In my letter..."Officer X indicated that the warning was for what could possibly have happened, i.e I could have alarmed another driver not expecting the overtake. Whilst I fully appreciate my judgement was not of a high standard and I exceeded the speed limit to perform the overtake, I have had time to review the section 59 warning and do not believe that the manoeuvre or my driving during the incident meets the criteria of careless or inconsiderate driving. I did ask Officer X twice during our conversation if the manoeuvre was safe and he stated that he believed it was. At no point during the manoeuvre did I inconvenience any other road user..."

But I have been inconsiderate in the eyes of one officer as it has been revealed he had to brake, thus inconveniencing him..."If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence.”

I'm aware motoring law is different from criminal law but I always have a problem with this statement as surely in the absence of other evidence eg video/second policeman, then the old adage of "everyone being equal in the eyes of the law" should stand firm with your word that "you didn't" being just as good as his word that "you did" which in effect you'd think should cancel each others accusations out resulting in a case dismisal or does this not apply and if not WHY NOT?

I would be contesting a decision made by a trained traffic officer with x years experience. The onus would be on me to prove I was not inconsiderate, ultimately having to prove that he did not brake or have to brake....reasonable doubt and all that good stuff.

I found out that if a policeman offers me a warning I have to decline it and say if they want to take it further they have to do me for it. Apparently accepting a warning is accepting you did what they said you did and being a doctor this would automatically put me in front of the GMC for a fitness to practice hearing...So basically I would be forced to make them come steal my car if they wanted to give me an S59 because theyre having a bit of a shoddy day.

You can tell them to stick the S59 and if you are 100% confident that they have nothing on you, drive away. They will just send it to you by post. You have no choice in receiving or accepting a warning so it makes zero difference if you sign anything or not.

There is also no official appeals procedure for a S59. Trawling for info on the Section 59 after I recieved it was a bit of an eye-opener as it seems to be abused and there is confusion as to its application, even on police forums.
 
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S59 is basically a way for any police officer to penalise you for anything he chooses, I've had three issued to me, my car towed and all because the officers are generally resentful of my choice of cars/career (my opinion). I quite like being 32 and being issued with an ASBO, when they tow the car you can get it back the same day for a hundred odd quid, only if you dont claim it will they "crush" it.

its a crap rule and gives the police free reign to penalise you for the smallest things that they take exception to, I had my multiple "offences" taken to court and they were thrown out - mine were hilarious :

1) loud and anti social exhaust note, fair enough my scoob was bloody loud but it passed its MOT so :confused:
2) agressive/dangerous driving, I passed a volvo driving christian on the inside after following him for ages and him refusing to move out of the fast lane, I didnt blow his doors away I just passed him slowly and straight away blues and two's in the mirror :rolleyes:
3)dangerous acceleration from a stopped position, loved this one, police had been glued to my bumper trying to goad me into doing anything worthy of a tug, gave it a few beans of the lights (never over 30) and sure enough sirens and sarcasm ensued.
 
Bear in mind you will now get stopped all the time by any cop who has that ANPR equipment in their car.

can only concur with this, gives them carte blanche to try and ruin your day as often as they like, very dull but as long as you don't rise to them its you that gets to drive off in a sports car and them that gets to watch with jealous envy, no greater smile to wear ;)
 
its a crap rule and gives the police free reign to penalise you for the smallest things that they take exception to, I had my multiple "offences" taken to court and they were thrown out - mine were hilarious :

Did you get anything for your trouble?
 
End of the day I overtook an unmarked car. Not the brightest move, but as I've had confirmed, safe.
I'm a bit confused by this. Reading up on S.59 it can only be issued where the vehicle is likley to be causing distress AND is in contravention of either S.3 or S.34. As you were on a road and the officer confirmed that no S.3 offence was committed the S.59 shouldn't have been issued.

Plod in not understanding the laws shocker.
 
I'm a bit confused by this. Reading up on S.59 it can only be issued where the vehicle is likley to be causing distress AND is in contravention of either S.3 or S.34. As you were on a road and the officer confirmed that no S.3 offence was committed the S.59 shouldn't have been issued.

Plod in not understanding the laws shocker.

I'm sure the officer could argue for a S.3 RTA contravention if asked.
 
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