co-op ID rant

[rypt]

A student union card is not valid ID, and most stores operate a policy whereby if a group of people are buying alcohol, everyone in the group gets asked to present ID. Otherwise there's the suspicion that the person with ID is supplying alcohol to those who are underage.

Which is still not illegal if the alcohol is to be consumed at home or similar.

 

[JBuk]

I can understand the need for a logbook with item, date, quick description, etc but I would have thought storing personnal details is against the DPA

 

[rypt]

No, not really. So long as they're not disclosing it to anyone else and are keeping it for a reasonable amount of time, and so long as you have access to it, they'll be fine.

The DPA just restricts how companies can store personal details, it doesn't restrict them from doing it altogether.

This does actually fail the DPA in a number of ways though...

Personal data shall be adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the purpose or purposes for which they are processed.

Asking for the address is excessive.

Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

A single book does not really meet this criteria

Entities holding personal information are required to have adequate security measures in place. Those include technical measures (such as firewalls) and organisational measures (such as staff training).

I doubt the staff are substancially trained with respect to the private data, equally I doubt the book is stored THAT securely.

 

[etom]

A student union card is not valid ID, and most stores operate a policy whereby if a group of people are buying alcohol, everyone in the group gets asked to present ID. Otherwise there's the suspicion that the person with ID is supplying alcohol to those who are underage.

fair enough, most places accept it though . Doesn't stop me disliking the rules / person enforcing them

 

[misterPK]

i wonder what will happen if i try and buy a beef and guinness pie?

I would like to see you trying to get drunk from eating pies.

PK!

 

[TheVoice]

Which is still not illegal if the alcohol is to be consumed at home or similar.

The person serving isn't psychic though, they don't know if you're going to drink it at home or in the street.

 

[etom]

The person serving isn't psychic though, they don't know if you're going to drink it at home or in the street.

should get the benefit of the doubt imo. I mean i couldn't buy a lighter the other day (have to be 21) was out camping and needed a lighter for meths stove. Can join the military at 16 get given a rifle, but you can't buy a lighter until 21. (in certain shops)

Kids who want to cause trouble will cause trouble and I can't see how an age restriction will do much to stop them. Its just a nusiance for normal people.

 

[rypt]

The person serving isn't psychic though, they don't know if you're going to drink it at home or in the street.

As posted above, if I say I'm not going to give it to an under-age person to drink outside of a private condition then any responsibility is off the shop and onto me as far as the law is concerned.

 

[andrewdodd13]

If it contains not more than 0.5% ABV then anyone can buy it. You'd need to drink 34 gallons of the stuff to feel anything like tipsy!

Our system only flags up alcohol, cigarettes, chocolate liqeurs and knives, although worryingly when the last promotion changeover occured all alcohol which had a price change (up or down) wasn't prompting for the customers age. Wasn't good for me as we have many retards working in our place that won't think to ask for ID unless "computer says so".
Of course you can buy a Guinness and ale pie, stop being a fool.

Our system flags up analgesics as well, which is a royal pain. You have to be 12 to buy those, but we have to ID under 25. How many 12 year olds do you know that carry ID?

The system we have in place is terrible. For starters, if we ID someone at 8pm for buying alcohol, and they come back at 8.30 to buy cigarettes, we have to ID them again - supposedly it's the law.

The simple way to fix is this is take at least some of the responsibility off the shops, and put it on the underagers. Most of them are between 16 and 18 and hence it's perfectly reasonable for them to be charged, so if they get caught by the police, rather than give them a slap on the wrist and confiscating the alcohol (which is what happens at the moment) stick them in the cells for a few nights.

(Remembering that it's not really illegal for underagers to drink in the home [although does an adult have to be present?] so it wouldn't be a ridiculous clampdown on those who don't cause trouble)

 

[Freefaller]

No, not really. So long as they're not disclosing it to anyone else and are keeping it for a reasonable amount of time, and so long as you have access to it, they'll be fine.

The DPA just restricts how companies can store personal details, it doesn't restrict them from doing it altogether.

Yes but there are controls in place to secure this information and how the information is to be used. Personal data is only meant to be kept for a certain time, and disposed of securely. Do they lock this data up at night? A book is a bit of a poor way to log this info. Giving your name and DOB is fine, but the address is a little tenuous for this activity where there is no legitimate reason for it.

This is the questions that typically you have to answer "yes" for. This list isn't exhaustive and there are exceptions.

•Do I really need this information about an individual? Do I know what I'm going to use it for?
•Do the people whose information I hold know that I've got it, and are they likely to understand what it will be used for?
•If I'm asked to pass on personal information, would the people about whom I hold information expect me to do this?
•Am I satisfied the information is being held securely, whether it's on paper or on computer? And what about my website? Is it secure?
•Is access to personal information limited to those with a strict need to know?
•Am I sure the personal information is accurate and up to date?
•Do I delete or destroy personal information as soon as I have no more need for it?
•Have I trained my staff in their duties and responsibilities under the Data Protection Act, and are they putting them into practice?
•Do I need to notify the Information Commissioner and if so is my notification up to date?


I'm sure in terms of the Co-Op this is not yes to all the questions. - whilst answering yes doesn't guarantee compliance, it's a good starter for 10.

 

[vincent1989]

the point is i had an ID, my friend had his driving license and we still couldn't get served?

YOU did not have valid ID, passport, driving license and any card with the PASS logo such as the portman card. and your friend could not be served because he was buying it for you. don't like it? get proper ID. the manager was in the wrong to override her, he should have given her his full support.

 

[Killerkebab]

Which is still not illegal if the alcohol is to be consumed at home or similar.

It is. The sale, rather than consumption of, alcohol is the part that is illegal

 

[Captain_Slick]

We don't do anything like this at B&Q and never have done.

Maybe it's different rules with alcohol/fags than it is with gas/spirits/solvents/various potentially lethal hand tools/etc.

If they have no ID and look under 21/18/whatever, they just leave the store empty handed. No details, no logbook, nothing.

What a waste of time it is for the people who do keep such a thing up to date.

 

[firthy15]

We do this in coral.

Note down names / DOB etc when we ID someone just for records.. Like we still wouldn't serve them if they did not have their ID even if they were in the book.

 

[I get around]

I've worked in tescos over 2 years and never heard of this, though ours is a big store so i dunno.

 

[atpbx]

I'm 33 next month, I've never been ID'd for anything, certainly not that I can remember.
Mind you, I dont smoke, and I never drank an awful lot, bought plenty of Knives and solvents and sharp garden tools and such, mainly for DIY, I've been a home owner since I was 18 so I was obviously fresh faced and young looking.

I was honestly, I have pictures and everything.

 

[Teki187]

Thanks to regulation and legislation, you aren't to be trusted. If you say you are old enough to buy that product, you are lying until you can prove otherwise.

Yeah and thats only because people are constnatly doing harmful things with age related items.

Teenagers buying booze, 10 year olds smoking, parents buying them for there kids.

If people took better care of them selfs and there family I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have that problem.

 

[SpeedFreak]

could have been worse, I got ID'd buying a lottery ticket. I'm 27!

 

[Vulcan]

In Sainsburys you need to look 25+ in order to buy a screwdriver without I.D, that's right, a screwdriver. I have no idea how old you actually have to be to buy it though.

 

[rypt]

In Sainsburys you need to look 25+ in order to buy a screwdriver without I.D, that's right, a screwdriver. I have no idea how old you actually have to be to buy it though.

I'm going to shave and test this tbh (never get ID when I'm not shaven)