Had the car remapped today

MrLOL said:
this has gone far off course and into a FWD vs RWD argument

but ..

At least if you mess it up in a RWD car, you can catch the oversteer and powerslide it. If you get it too far wrong in a FWD you just end up oversteering all of the place and theres nothing you can do about it apart from come off the throttle
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Actually, given the same scenario, over application of power, a FWD is far easier to catch than a RWD. Hence why they are considered "safer"

Sure, it may look prettier in a RWD and I think you will find the FWD will understeer, rather than over, unless you have stamped on the brakes and shoved all the weight onto the front wheels! (exageration of lift off oversteer)
 
Overlag said:
the thing that always makes me laugh about the FWD RWD arguement is this... People always claim that 400bhp FWD will be undriveable but really, if you mash the throttle in a RWD 400bhp car you will be going sideways/spinning. Is it really that hard to control throttle in a FWD car? No, put the throttle down progressively and the problems are solved. You just gotta change styles.




full throttle, full turning of steering wheel+the driving god that is Clarkson.... So what, a FWD understeers, a RWD car will be going backwards...
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mash the throttle mid corner and you will go sideways, not if you are going in a straightline (unless you have totally unsuitable tyres).

FWD is flawed with torque steer which becomes more apparent with more power. RWD does not have this problem, if you run out of grip from the tyres then you have issues but this not the same problem. however much grip you have on a FWD car you will still get torque steer.
 
MrLOL said:
this was my point

pulling fuses to make the car understeer more, to make it easier to demonstrate on camera that it understeers is exactly the sort of thing top gear do on other cars. S class is the prime example

The e60 m5 review is another. Of course the sat nav can be turned off.


by all means criticise the car after having driven it at the VXR track days, or having been for a ride in mine as its by no means a perfect car. But dont use the top gear review as an indication of anything other than top gear creating comedy moments for the camera.
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Without wishing to be seen in support of Vauxhall, I can believe Top Gear did that :)

When they had the Westfield XTR2 on as a "car you can build in your shed" and put it up against the Zonda, they had decided what laptime it was going to do before the car hit the track. It doesn't really bother anyone as they wrote it to beat the Zonda, and it did. But the datalogger trace (which I've personally seen) actually showed it did the lap 2 seconds quicker (IIRC) than Top Gear had scripted it to do, so beating the Zonda even more.
And the XTR2 mysteriously disappeared from the board because it "couldn't get over a speedbump" (bet it could if it didn't have JC in it!) despite lots of the other cars being lower, and this was before Lamborghini's nose lift etc was introduced.
 
MrLOL said:
At least if you mess it up in a RWD car, you can catch the oversteer and powerslide it. If you get it too far wrong in a FWD you just end up oversteering all of the place and theres nothing you can do about it apart from come off the throttle
.
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Eh?:confused:

In a FWD car the opposite is true. If the back end steps out, you need to mash the throttle to pull it in line again. Lifting off would send the weight to the rear, further increasing the angle. Surely?
 
[TW]Fox;14688132 said:
E90 330i was in budget as well. Various 4wd Audi's also. Merc W211, etc etc. Infact numerous RWD cars.
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cheapest e90 330i on pistonheads, even now is over 14k. They werent 14k a year ago when i was looking. Back then you couldnt get one for much under 20k when i looked.

The 4x4 audis are just as well known for understeering and neutral handling as the vectra is.

And the mercs are all far too old man for me,
 
Dorje said:
Eh?:confused:

In a FWD car the opposite is true. If the back end steps out, you need to mash the throttle to pull it in line again. Lifting off would send the weight to the rear, further increasing the angle. Surely?
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I think the point is that the FWD is unlikely to oversteer unless you lift off in the first place to induce it, he's talking about the natural characteristic for a RWD to oversteer and a FWD to understeer. You could have course make both cars do the opposite but that's not what's being discussed.

Edit: I see, I think he originally meant to say "understeering all over the place"
 
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Dorje said:
Eh?:confused:

In a FWD car the opposite is true. If the back end steps out, you need to mash the throttle to pull it in line again. Lifting off would send the weight to the rear, further increasing the angle. Surely?
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yes.

But as as i found out on the VXR track days, if you get it all wrong and go into a corner too fast, you can take your foot off the gas mid corner without killing yourself :) Thats the point i was making.
 
MrLOL said:
cheapest e90 330i on pistonheads, even now is over 14k. They werent 14k a year ago when i was looking. Back then you couldnt get one for much under 20k when i looked.

The 4x4 audis are just as well known for understeering and neutral handling as the vectra is.

And the mercs are all far too old man for me,
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What you need is a supercharged Jag V8 :D ...cheaper to buy used than the Germans, and lots of power and torque and absolutely instant delivery, supercharged cars are so immediate, stepping on the loud peddle in an S Type R or an XJR is like sticking a sharp stick up a sleeping tiger, it will get you an immediate and ferocious response :D

Nice remap anyway, that's a lot of torque gained. I know your Vectra doesn't actually handle as bad as Top Gear made out, since I've been in it, it's no BMW though that's for sure.

I gather what you were really trying to achieve was basically, if you are driving along at 30-50mph and you drop a cog and plant your right foot, you want to go from it being quick to being really very rapid indeed :D ...I'd say you achieved exactly that by the sounds of it.
 
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[TW]Fox;14690892 said:
Load of rubbish, there are loads from £10k with sensible (40k) miles on.
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Don't say things like that, or I'll be car shopping again! :p ...something I should probably avoid for about a year.
 
You could have had a nice MY52 E39 530i M Sport Touring with 90k on the clock for £4500 like the one my friend just picked up from Norfolk.

At that price, might have to get one myself and run it in to the ground! :)
 
MrLOL said:
Generally speaking, bhp will up your top speed, and torque will increase your acceleration.
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Not... quite. HP is a function of torque and RPM, and thus HP represents acceleration just as much. As an example, a Formula 1 engine only produces around 200 ft-lbs of torque, less than the engine in my car, yet I'd still prefer the F1 engine because it produces more HP. Despite the reduction in torque, it will certainly accelerate my car quicker!

I prefer to think of peak torque as an indication of ease of acceleration, and power as an indication of maximum potential acceleration.

Either way, that's a nice mid-range gain! I imagine it feels like a different car!
 
Yes there was, I remember seeing them at the time. You just didnt look hard enough. Ok, they are no M Sport's, but plenty have M Sport suspension, the right seats etc.
 
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