Valencia - Spain - EUROPEAN Grand Prix 2009 - Race 11/17

[sunama]

Overall, I would say it was a decent race. The right man won - Barrichello did great, which we know because we only have to compare his performance to the World Championship leader.

Button
Button has certainly not looked like his "6 wins out of 7" form, since he won his last race. Its almost as if someone has cast a spell to reduce his ability. Is this a result of pressure?

I still believe that even if he doesnt win another race this season, he will win the title.

BrawnGP
What will be interesting at Spa is the performance of BrawnGP. We dont know if the performance of their car returned to the top, as a result of the warm weather or by car development/improvement. This will certainly be something to keep an eye on at Spa.

RedBull
Have RedBull gone backwards?
At around Siliverstone and Nurburgring, they had the best car, but now, all of a sudden, it would appear that BrawnGP, Ferrari and McLaren have all overtaken them.

The change of regs has certainly made the season a lot more unpredictable and exciting. Even though BrawnGP had the best car in the early part of the season and Button won a stupendous 6 out of 7 races, many people seem to believe that it isnt a forgone conclusion that Button will finish top of the points standings this year. This can only be a good thing, if only to keep F1 fans guessing and coming back for more.

McLaren
McLaren don't appear to have the best car yet, but they are almost there.

Had Hamilton been allowed to keep his 6 points from the first race of the season, he might've been an outside bet for the championship as there is a good chance that Hamilton will be the top points scorer in the 2nd half of the season.

With Heikki doing a decent job as the No.2 driver, McLaren should look to move up the Constructors Championship table.

Spa
Traditionally, Spa has been a great race track. It involves pretty much every type of corner you can think of. There is ample opportunity to overtake and its a real drivers' circuit - if you are fast there, you are genuinely a good driver.

I'm certainly looking forward to this race, next Sunday.

 

[FrankJH]

Its a VERY SUBSTANTIAL PAYCHECK. I believe he is the highest paid F1 driver of all time. I'd love to see Alonso in a competitive car again and based on the last few years, Ferrari are the team most likely to be able to deliver.
.

You really think Kimi is paid more than MS was in his last few years - come on!!!

Antony Davidson is reported to have put his name forward (or is going to before Spa) to replace Badoer

Who believes he has a decent chance considering the shocking race Badoer had?

Button
Button has certainly not looked like his "6 wins out of 7" form, since he won his last race. Its almost as if someone has cast a spell to reduce his ability. Is this a result of pressure?

I still believe that even if he doesnt win another race this season, he will win the title.

BrawnGP
What will be interesting at Spa is the performance of BrawnGP. We dont know if the performance of their car returned to the top, as a result of the warm weather or by car development/improvement. This will certainly be something to keep an eye on at Spa.

RedBull
Have RedBull gone backwards?
At around Siliverstone and Nurburgring, they had the best car, but now, all of a sudden, it would appear that BrawnGP, Ferrari and McLaren have all overtaken them.
.

Quite interesting how you blame Jenson for poor form, when its clear that its a technical fault with the car for 3 of the last 4 races, and it was only yesterday when he genuinely had a poor race compared to his team mate

Yet for RedBull its the team that have gone backwards...

(Im sure Red Bull will get back to near the front this weekend, it just depends on how good McLaren and Brawn can be in the Ardennes)

 

[Sumanji]

In today's race, Heikki did everything that was required of a No.2 driver....

Good point - a number 2 driver ideally blocks everyone behind him and gives the lead guy a healthy buffer, which is exactly what he did on Sunday. If Lewis was not able to maintain that lead by setting a quick pace, then it's his own fault!

Also, re. Button's deterioration in form - my whacky theory is that ever since he got rid of his old "luminous Union Jack" helmet at Silverstone, he has been ****. Make of that what you will

Su

 

[sunama]

Good point - a number 2 driver ideally blocks everyone behind him and gives the lead guy a healthy buffer, which is exactly what he did on Sunday. If Lewis was not able to maintain that lead by setting a quick pace, then it's his own fault!

Hehehe. Yep. He was Hamilton's rear gunner.

 

[sunama]

You really think Kimi is paid more than MS was in his last few years - come on!!!

Yep.

If the internet is to be believed:
Kimi earns US$51M/year
http://www.forumula1.net/2006/f1/f1-news/raikkonen-is-f1s-highest-paid-driver/

MS, in his final year earnt US$36M.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/53/07celebrities_Michael-Schumacher_5WRJ.html


Now where MS overtakes Kimi is in endorsements. Due to his lesser success, Kimi cant negotiate the sort of off-track deals that MS could.

Tut tut, Frank. I looks like you are looking for arguments for the sake of it now.

Quite interesting how you blame Jenson for poor form, when its clear that its a technical fault with the car for 3 of the last 4 races, and it was only yesterday when he genuinely had a poor race compared to his team mate

Yet for RedBull its the team that have gone backwards...

(Im sure Red Bull will get back to near the front this weekend, it just depends on how good McLaren and Brawn can be in the Ardennes)

The difference is that for RedBull, both drivers have suffered similar fates. ie. they have both gone backwards...not just one driver.

Over the last few races, Barrichello seems to have the edge over Button. This culminated in Barrichello blaming the team for his inability to convert this "edge" to race wins or finishing ahead of Button. In one race BrawnGP botched Barrichello's pit-stop, if memory serves me correctly. And in another they changed Barrichello's strategy, which once again allowed Button to get ahead of Barrichello.

In the last race though, Barrichello hasnt been hampered by his team and the result was a race win.

When both drivers are going backwards, in sync, there is reason to believe that the car is underperforming (like RedBull). When 1 driver is going backwards, while the other is maintaining a certain level, there is reason to believe that the performance of 1 driver has dropped, especially when you consider that for the first 7 races of the season, Button was making Barrichello look very bad.

 

[Dr Jack]

Over the last few races, Barrichello seems to have the edge over Button. This culminated in Barrichello blaming the team for his inability to convert this "edge" to race wins or finishing ahead of Button. In one race BrawnGP botched Barrichello's pit-stop, if memory serves me correctly. And in another they changed Barrichello's strategy, which once again allowed Button to get ahead of Barrichello.

And let's not forget Button's fastest lap was faster than Barrichello's. Button's struggling under the pressue, if you ask me. He followed a poor qualifying with a weak start to the race and never recovered. Only when the pressure was off, and he got a bit of free track to relax and drive on did he show what we all know: he's the faster driver.

Rubens drove a great and consistent race, and was justly rewarded for it. Although it might have been different were it not for the mess up with Lewis's tyres.

 

[Sumanji]

Yeah, it seems Button is great starting from the front in clean air. At the beginning of the year this was fine, as even with an average qualifying time (relative to the Brawn car's potential performance), nobody else around him was capable of putting in a time good enough to challenge for pole.

Now, his mediocre qualifying times net him in the pack; and unlike drivers like Webber, KIMMAY, Rubens etc. he doesn't have the cojones to fight through the pack. Even though you could argue he has the skill (as demonstrated by a fair few sweet overtaking moves this season), you need both skill and balls of steel if you are going to fight through the pack into some clean air.

If I met Ross Brawn in person I would advise them to light fuel Button and aim at pole for the rest of the remaining races! I don't think Button can win another race if he isn't starting on the front row...

My 2p!

Su

 

[Glaucus]

^^
Totally agree 2 of the bad starts he had this year. He actually had great starts. But because he did not go wide or move for whatever reason. he had to get of the throttle.

 

[Dup]

If I met Ross Brawn in person I would advise them to light fuel Button and aim at pole for the rest of the remaining races! I don't think Button can win another race if he isn't starting on the front row...

My 2p!

Su

I remember it being mentioned they could try something more agressive. The problem is, Button has a lot to lose by not getting any points and he always gets stuck behind a heavy KERS car or a long stint runner in a slower car with lighter fuel load.

He also has a lot to lose in terms of reputation. He's clearly made the best of the best car while it lasted, but it won't do his career good by crashing out or taking big risks. He's gone too cautious and is not as bullish as Webber and Raikkonen around him and he needs to work on his starts where he can, or ultimately pull out a one lap special in quali without taking too much off the fuel.

Rubens made the most of the weekend by far, and with a little bit more weight. Brawns a clever guy and they were pretty smug before the weekends preceedings declaring their problems are over and everythings fine. Maybe they're playing games by letting Rubens have some light on him to promote interest in sponsorship, but that would be a conspiracy too far wouldn't it?

 

[Lopéz]

Genuinely surprised at people who think this season has been boring. Every race I have absolutely no idea who is going to be fastest. It's great!

 

[Dup]

Genuinely surprised at people who think this season has been boring. Every race I have absolutely no idea who is going to be fastest. It's great!

5 different winners so far from 3 different teams. I would like to see Rosberg win something. He's been quite good this season.

 

[TaKeN]

RE : Brawn running light on fuel. Havn't the last few races been light fuel loads compared to the other teams? poor qually results ensued..

Now they are possibly back on form after some work during the 4 week break with a relatively heavy amount of fuel onboard at Valencia giving some decent qually results.

 

[FrankJH]

Yep.

If the internet is to be believed:
Kimi earns US$51M/year
http://www.forumula1.net/2006/f1/f1-news/raikkonen-is-f1s-highest-paid-driver/

MS, in his final year earnt US$36M.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/53/07celebrities_Michael-Schumacher_5WRJ.html


Now where MS overtakes Kimi is in endorsements. Due to his lesser success, Kimi cant negotiate the sort of off-track deals that MS could.

Tut tut, Frank. I looks like you are looking for arguments for the sake of it now.

Not at all - effectively MS got paid $100m per year - of course Ferrari are going to find it easier to negotiate DOWN if you can earn so much more from endorsements (that are basically contracts BECAUSE you drive for Ferrari)

Yes those contracts get less when you are a much...cooler and less successful driver, and so Ferrari pay you more - not really that hard to understand.

Seeing as ALL the money - or at least a vast % is about who the team is, its the final amount that counts, not the fee from the team itself (as they are tied together so heavily)

The difference is that for RedBull, both drivers have suffered similar fates. ie. they have both gone backwards...not just one driver.

Over the last few races, Barrichello seems to have the edge over Button. This culminated in Barrichello blaming the team for his inability to convert this "edge" to race wins or finishing ahead of Button. In one race BrawnGP botched Barrichello's pit-stop, if memory serves me correctly. And in another they changed Barrichello's strategy, which once again allowed Button to get ahead of Barrichello.

In the last race though, Barrichello hasnt been hampered by his team and the result was a race win.

When both drivers are going backwards, in sync, there is reason to believe that the car is underperforming (like RedBull). When 1 driver is going backwards, while the other is maintaining a certain level, there is reason to believe that the performance of 1 driver has dropped, especially when you consider that for the first 7 races of the season, Button was making Barrichello look very bad.

and three of the last four races (Britain, Germany and Hungary) Brawn as a TEAM performed badly, and only in one of those does Barrichello have a reason to compain (about a bad pitstop I seem to recall) - and only one did Rubens actually beat Jenson (in Britain) and if you look at the timings even in that race it was by a mere 5 seconds , which considering how many cars where inbetween was an absolute minimum anyway given impossibility of overtaking

Dont get me wrong, Jenson HAS to get his racing head on FAST to keep his chances alive, one bad mistake and it could be single figure difference in the championship (or nearly single figure at Spa if RB have the expected advantage) - but he hasnt done as badly as you keep on trying to insinuate also

RE : Brawn running light on fuel. Havn't the last few races been light fuel loads compared to the other teams? poor qually results ensued..
.

Yes they did try this in two races I think to try and alleviate the tyre temp issue (or lessen it at least) but it didnt really work at all (who knows they could have finished further back if they had gone heavier)

However now that in theory at least they seem to think they have cured this - going light at Spa at the beginning to use the outright speed of the car to go off into the distance from the front row (hopefully) COULD give them a lead going into 2nd stops..........we shall have to wait and see

He also has a lot to lose in terms of reputation. He's clearly made the best of the best car while it lasted, but it won't do his career good by crashing out or taking big risks. He's gone too cautious and is not as bullish as Webber and Raikkonen around him and he needs to work on his starts where he can, or ultimately pull out a one lap special in quali without taking too much off the fuel.

the other side of the coin is - you could see it as fighting for the championship and being ballsy - the way the last few races have gone, he may well be overtaken in the championship (or be very close to losing the lead ) by the time the really hot fly away races come back, and then he would REALLY be under pressure and would have to hope the car was really at its best - and near if not THE best on the grid to get front row slots there to build up a lead again,......

better to fight and lose than to slide slowly into mediocrity at the end

 

[Dutch Guy]

Genuinely surprised at people who think this season has been boring. Every race I have absolutely no idea who is going to be fastest. It's great!

That part is great this year, but I guess everyone had high hopes that the chances to the cars would make for overtaking, but sadly that hasn't happened, the most exciting bit of the GP was the fact LH his tyres were 5 seconds late, whoopie

It is still a procession to the first pitstops and if you lose 5 seconds on the stop you lose the race as there is no chance of overtaking on the track.

And IMO one of the things that makes it interesting (KERS) is something they will drop.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Genuinely surprised at people who think this season has been boring. Every race I have absolutely no idea who is going to be fastest. It's great!

I know what you mean! I always come away from the races thinking it was a good one.

Only to hear everyone else say it was dull. I swear i have been watching other races

 

[utajoker]

its been exciting in that we dont know who will be fastest each weekend, but once quali is over that quite obvious. most of the races have been dull.

think i would like hamilton to get a grid drop somewere just to see him power through the field

 

[PinkFloyd]

Yeh I kinda miss Hamilton being in the slower car and overtaking his way up a few places. I want some oddly timed rain to cause a freak grid at Spa, with both Redbulls, Brawns, Hamilton and Kimi further down the grid!

 

[Dutch Guy]

Stop quali and use the result of the last race as starting positions but in reverse order

 

[Demon]

Apart from the lack of overtaking, the season has been quite good as people have mentioned.

I personally think they need to stop trying to promote overtaking by specifying maximum wing dimensions, but rather set a 'downforce' limit and a 'displaced air' limit, which is what they are trying to achieve by reducing the aero dimensions, but fail because teams just get more creative in how they use the space and we end up back to square one. And not spending money developing clever aero could be spent elsewhere.

 

[FrankJH]

Stop quali and use the result of the last race as starting positions but in reverse order

Another day of testing then - or a shorter weekend, Bernie wouldnt like that as the TV money would go right down

Quali should be exciting - and maybe with low fuel runs all the way through it will be again next year, although I quite like the speculation of how much fuel each car is running (albeit only for a few hours until FIA release the weights)

Something along the lines of swapping the grids around so slowest is on pole would be entertaiining........and dangerous

God imagine the ferrari and renault going around the 1st corner first at spa - absolute carnage is BOUND to happen