Caporegime
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Play nice children...
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Let Battle Commence
- Thread starter LoadsaMoney
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Associate
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Yeah, fair enough, but now with the 600+euro price tag of the 5870x2 as well, you have to wonder about some peoples claims of ATi's "holier than thou" business ethics
Last I heard it was 600 dollars, which works out very reasonable in £.
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hmmm, the last leaked price of the 5870 and 5850 were wrong, so I'd be taking some salt with them 600 dollars.
Makes no odds anyway if you can't buy them from anywhere due to shortages
It could be worse, they could've started the 5800 series at $600 which they probably would've barely gotten away with. I don't think AMD's any more or less guilty of being a business than anyone else, though. That said, I read in the anandtech review of the 5870 that the RV870 core was larger than a starting price of $299 would allow (for reference, the RV870 core is 334MM^2, RV770 is 260MM^2, which is quite a lot smaller).
Supposedly AMD are going to be releasing a sort of half-way chip to fill the lower pricing segments called Juniper towards the end of the year, which I presume will be branded as the 5700 series. According to Anandtech, it will have 14 SIMD units enabled (which means it should have 1120 shaders and 56 TMU's), so hopefully that should be a decent price/performance part - I'd say there was a good chance of the highest end 5700 part rivalling the GTX285 unless they really screw up. I think the idea is this chip is supposed to take the kind of $150-$250 price range.
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=3
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Agree totally. Its just that a certain few people on these forums seem to be under the sad illusion that ATi's sole mission is to spend millions upon millions on development of new technology and then sell them like walmart sells beans. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that NV are any better. The only company that can "stack em high and sell em cheap" are intel, they are the only ones large enough.
I dont think ATi can bring any new cards out just yet, looks like they will be struggling to get enough on the table to fill demand for the 5870's if the Dell rumour is true. Have to assume its true due to the lack of a showing from the 5850.
Exactly, it's also the case they're the first to release a new generation of gpu's before Nvidia.
48xx cards were priced down because it was a market share grab by ATI with little to lose - not due to any benevolance on ATI's part unlike some people would somewhat naively like to believe.
Now they have more to lose and nVidia has nicely left the field open for them, they are strengthening their position (financially) while they can, whilest still keeping a good balance on the prices that will help to continue increasing their market share... someone at ATI/AMD is very very good at business...
Some people will talk about selling loads at a cheaper price and making the profit by selling more units... but this would expose ATI quite significantly - if nVidia were to use their market dominance and financial position to undercut ATI's best price before they were to break even let alone turn a profit, ATI would go **** up and nVidia would have the whole market to regain their expenditure from.
Now they have more to lose and nVidia has nicely left the field open for them, they are strengthening their position (financially) while they can, whilest still keeping a good balance on the prices that will help to continue increasing their market share... someone at ATI/AMD is very very good at business...
Some people will talk about selling loads at a cheaper price and making the profit by selling more units... but this would expose ATI quite significantly - if nVidia were to use their market dominance and financial position to undercut ATI's best price before they were to break even let alone turn a profit, ATI would go **** up and nVidia would have the whole market to regain their expenditure from.
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How can nvidia price their cards that low? I thought they cost too much to make? The cards that compete with the 5800 series anyway (gt200).
Because its for the main part (intel aside) only a 2 player market... if ATI tries to sell on volume* they'd have to put a lot of money upfront, their operational costs and overheads would massively increase and their profit per unit will be down significantly... this can work very well under certain circumstances (the GPU market is too fluid really for these kinda gambles)... but in this case it would be like a red flag to a bull... nvidia with their considerable market dominance and financial advantage could take a hit to undercut them below what ATI could afford to drop to, leaving ATI out of pocket and owing money... and basically out for the count - the market is then nVidias for the taking (recoup their loss)... AMD can't afford at this time to bail out its GPU arm.
* Where they are massively reducing the card price to drive demand.
EDIT: I'm not overlooking the fact that it tends to be the mainstream and value cards that are the biggest source of income either.
* Where they are massively reducing the card price to drive demand.
EDIT: I'm not overlooking the fact that it tends to be the mainstream and value cards that are the biggest source of income either.
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They aren't in a brilliant position but they are keeping their head above water... AMD/ATI on the other hand are on the brink - I'm actually suprised they are still afloat - it would take only a nudge to send them under... not that I'd ever want that... which is why the sucess of the 5800 is quite important and probably why they've put a lot of thought into how they brought it to market - the deal with dell is probably vital for them which is probably why they've shipped off every possible unit to them.
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Its simple, you do not sell your product at i higher price than your main competitor that has a bigger market share & a higher performing product.
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I'd like an expert's opinion on this tbh, people have been saying AMD are "on the brink" for years now, much like the press liked to refer to Apple as "embattled" until the ipod really hit it big.
People hear something once and repeat it forever, whether it's true or not.
People hear something once and repeat it forever, whether it's true or not.
AMD is operating at a huge level of operational loss... most other companies would have folded before this... if it wasn't for the fact their market value appears to be on a strong upwards trend and some of their major losses can be accounted for in aquisitions with strong future revenue potential they'd probably have been forced to call it a day.
He said expert's opinion.