British man to be exectuted by Chinese

bum · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:34

RDM said:
Considering the massive human rights abuses in China it really isn't a country which I would aspire to.

You sounds like China is the only country with human rights problem

JBuk · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:35

RDM said:
Two things would spring to mind. The first is that I could post the various links of studies showing the lack of detterent effect but then you would just either ignore or dismiss them as you have done with Dolph.

I have dismissed it because I specifically asked if it was a meaningful deterrant for drug smuggling in China, the link provided was more about homicides in the US and I believe there's a difference in the severity of the crimes and that Chinese culture may also play a part in how much of an effect such harsh punishments have on their population

The other is the fact that plenty of people still commit said crimes despite the fact they could be executed. If, as you assume, the thought process is "If I get caught, I will die" what then is your rational for the fact that people still do the crime?

And vice versa, how many people have not gone through with commiting such crimes because the punishment has deterred them?

There's clearly people who are willing to take the risk but how many people have thought twice and not gone through with it?

RDM · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:36

bum said:
You sounds like China is the only country with human rights problem

How the hell did you get that from my one line post? Many, many countries have human rights problems, even ours. But China has considerably more issues with human rights than us and I certainly wouldn't aspire to emulate their "justice" system.

fadetoblack · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:36

bum said:
You sounds like China is the only country with human rights problem

He does; )

tedmaul · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:37

mollymoo said:
I agree with both these quotes. It's not like it's a secret that they will execute you if caught smuggling drugs and contrary to some peoples opinions on here heroin does ruin peoples lives. By stopping that one person smuggling drugs ever again you will save a few lives.

He is mentally ill. It's pretty obvious if you've actually read anything about the case or have any experience of dealing with mental illness that he was duped into carrying the drugs because of his vulnerable mental state.

Spie said:
Heroin dealer=life wrecker.

Deserves to die. Scumbag.

He is not a heroin dealer. He is mentally ill and was duped into carrying heroin into the country. Have you even bothered to read the thread or just reacted to the headline like the rest of the fools in this thread?

Naffa · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:37

PMKeates said:
Distrust in the Chinese justice system. Do you trust that justice has been carried out correctly? Has he had a fair trial? Has he been correctly and independently examined for sanity of mind? I severely doubt it on all of these points.

I read that the court actually refused to carry out a psychological evaluation to determine what his mental state actually is/was.

wozencl · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:37

The fact is that most people choose to take drugs. You can't just blame the supplier nor can you ever stop the supply.

Thinking that taking one amateur dealer off the streets is going to make a blind bit of difference is fairly delusional.

+1

Taking such drastic action will only make smuggling drugs into China riskier and more attractive to, the often desperate, people who have to resort to it.

fadetoblack · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:40

RDM said:
How the hell did you get that from my one line post? Many, many countries have human rights problems, even ours. But China has considerably more issues with human rights than us and I certainly wouldn't aspire to emulate their "justice" system.

I would in Some ways I.E you are drug pusher scumbag and the fuz found ya then you deserve to Die.

Tefal · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:41

wozencl said:
+1

Taking such drastic action will only make smuggling drugs into China riskier and more attractive to, the often desperate, people who have to resort to it.

Or more likely just result in drug mules being exposed/recruited through harsher blackmail/threats.

Smuggle this or well kill your family type things.

JBuk · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:43

tedmaul said:
He is mentally ill. It's pretty obvious if you've actually read anything about the case or have any experience of dealing with mental illness that he was duped into carrying the drugs because of his vulnerable mental state.

He is not a heroin dealer. He is mentally ill and was duped into carrying heroin into the country. Have you even bothered to read the thread or just reacted to the headline like the rest of the fools in this thread?

How do you know that for a fact? how do you know he wasn't fully in control of his faculties when he agreed to and carried out the smuggling of the drugs?

Nobody knows

fadetoblack · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:43

tedmaul said:
He is mentally ill. It's pretty obvious if you've actually read anything about the case or have any experience of dealing with mental illness that he was duped into carrying the drugs because of his vulnerable mental state.

He is not a heroin dealer. He is mentally ill and was duped into carrying heroin into the country. Have you even bothered to read the thread or just reacted to the headline like the rest of the fools in this thread?

Only his family are playing the mentally ill card. Try Reading more then just the BBC news.

wozencl · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:44

I would in Some ways I.E you are drug pusher scumbag and the fuz found ya then you deserve to Die.

Again, making the "drug pusher scumbag" even richer. The law as it stands serves only to enrich the very people it's supposed to stop.

tedmaul · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:49

fadetoblack said:
Only his family are playing the mentally ill card. Try Reading more then just the BBC news.

No, they aren't. Try reading more than just this thread.

I posted some further details of his mental history on here earlier in the thread:

http://www.reprieve.org.uk/akmalshaikh

The fact is, the Chinese govt are blocking any further mental assessment of him.

As someone who has had years of dealing with someone with bi-polar the symptoms are pretty obvious. But don't let that stop everyone slabbering for the mans execution....

fadetoblack · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:50

One good thing I guess he doesnt have to look far if he wants a decent Chinky for his last meal : )

Tefal · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:52

JBuk said:
Nobody knows

You know that almost sounds like reasonable doubt....

platinum87 · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:52

semi-pro waster said:
Money may not grow on trees but the opium poppy grows in fields if we're trading tautologies.

Both you and drunkenmaster seem to assume that the death penalty is weighed up by criminals and evaluated on a risk/reward basis - this is not necessarily so. Either because they do not expect to get caught as highlighted by RDM or because they are incapable of considering the consequences through the passion that caused the crime or they are mentally unable to do so.

And you seem to assume the opposite? Your argument being that criminals dont think rationally, and mine is based around logic...

Dolph said:
Because there is massive amounts of research that clearly shows that the death penalty does not have a statistically meaningful deterrant effect?

Most capital crimes in places like the US are crimes that are either irrational or delusional (especially murder), and so a good risk assessment is not made.

All these types of statistics are just jibba jabba, it doesnt clearly show anything.

90% of the time you could take a bunch of stats that say one thing, and make it appear as they say something completely contradictory or something new entirely. Thats the whole point of stats, you cant always just edit them to say what you want so you take real stats click on format in excel, and click "jibba jabba"

jms198 · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:54

Hikari Kisugi said:
Most of the countries in South East Asia will execute you if you are caught smuggling large quantities of drugs, and 4KG of heroin is a massive quantity.

Singapore will kill you, Thialand will, Vietnam will, Indonesia will, Laos will, Malaysia will, China will, unsure on Korea's policy. They take their drug problems seriously (when you don't bribe the right people) I agree wholeheartedly with the concept. Problem is you only kill couriers, never suppliers or overlords.

In the middle east they will amputate both your hands. I saw this advertised on a large plaque in Dubai. Not a bad deterent. I only agree with these overly harsh punishment if there is no question of someones guilt; even then I am not totally convinced.

I love the idea of public lashings though for petty youth offenders.

fadetoblack · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:55

tedmaul said:
No, they aren't. Try reading more than just this thread.

I posted some further details of his mental history on here earlier in the thread:

http://www.reprieve.org.uk/akmalshaikh

The fact is, the Chinese govt are blocking any further mental assessment of him.

As someone who has had years of dealing with someone with bi-polar the symptoms are pretty obvious. But don't let that stop everyone slabbering for the mans execution....

That link is full of B/s

I'm all for equality; punishment should be equal for all regardless of afflictions, diseases, psychiatric problems, skin colour, religion, etc, etc, even gingers

Chimerical · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:57

jms198 said:
In the middle east they will amputate both your hands. I saw this advertised on a large plaque in Dubai. Not a bad deterent. I only agree with these overly harsh punishment if there is no question of someones guilt; even then I am not totally convinced.

I love the idea of public lashings though for petty youth offenders.

Except for the fact that (I believe) the vast majority of heroin comes from Afghanistan which is supporting the farmers and their families there.

tedmaul · 28 Dec 2009 at 15:57

fadetoblack said:
That link is full of B/s

I'm all for equality; punishment should be equal for all regardless of afflictions, diseases, psychiatric problems, skin colour, religion, etc, etc, even gingers

All your posts are full of B/s. Given your delight in hilarious jokes about 'chinkys' i don't think there's that much point in trying to attempt any kind of intelligent debate with you.

I only hope you never have to deal with severe mental illness in your family.