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Fermi production 3rd week in Feb

I thought the 4% was released ages ago and then they said they expected it to be around 30% IIRC .If it is true then they must be binning a lot of parts for the lower cards.
 
Updated link here > http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-fermi-gpu,9420.html

The 4% figure (which i'm sure is 40%) is apparently for the 5800 series, Fermi is expected to do better than that.

Who expects it to be higher? Nvidia or TSMC? Surely with Fermi being a larger more complex core it'll be harder to manufacture and therefore yields will be lower? I'm not a fabrication expert but thats the way my common sense points.
 
Who expects it to be higher? Nvidia or TSMC? Surely with Fermi being a larger more complex core it'll be harder to manufacture and therefore yields will be lower? I'm not a fabrication expert but thats the way my common sense points.

Not necessarily. Fermi maybe bigger but design differences mean that it may not get worse yields. But a bigger chip will fit fewer per wafer, thats definite.
 
as mentioned earlier, it is badly written. it is "4- percent", or in the 40s, unfortunately the '-' seems to fall on a new line for me making it even worse to read :)
 
I'm not sure what they are describing TBH.



"We received word from an Nvidia partner that Fermi will go into production starting in the 3rd week of February, and be available in "low quantities" starting mid-march.
According to our source, Fermi's yield will be low but not any worst than what AMD/ATI is experiencing. TSMC, the company producing Radeon HD 5800 series at 40nm, is "happy at 4-percent yield," said our source"
 
When I copy and paste it I get this though:

"happy at 4-percent yield"

That looks very much so like an intentional hyphen.
 
Mostly when talking about yields they will be refering to how many parts on that wafer are fully working, every last transistor working.

Binning brings the yield up after the fact, the yield is how many top end cores come off the line.

4% is fairly believable to be honest, based on how many cores they got for A2 silicon(rumoured to be under 10 per wafer, with that Fermi core we saw being marked as number 7iirc). Considering the Tesla product has been changed at the high end from 512sp's to 448sp's, the yields on the highest speed parts are low enough they simply don't believe they can make them in suffient quantity to sell in the professional sector.

But it could quite easily mean what you might refer to as, for instance people say the 58XX series cards, the X denoting any old number, instead of an X they used a "-" , so essentially 4X% , anything from 40-49% yields.

But really this is the problem, far to many reporters here yield and think of a single thing.

TSMC didn't have any drop in wafer yields at all, though it was widely reported they did, they had a drop in the plant output, from 9k to 6k wafers, but same yield on the wafers themselves.

IT could mean anything basically, and real yields are never publically released so we'll never know past a good guess.

Considering A2 was rumoured SO low, I very much doubt a theoretical 40-50% yield would mean for the top end part, if they were only getting 40-50% of the wafer as working cores at all, even heavily binned ones, those are some terrible numbers.

D.P almost exclusively bigger cores always have worse yields, simply because even if only one core failed on every wafer, which is basically a given on any process, a bigger core means less cores per wafer, so one not working gives you a bigger percentage yield drop.

Its perfectly possible that a bigger chip could get lucky and have say 10 faults causing it to fail all on one chip with the rest fine, and a wafer of smaller chips could also have 10 faults but one each on ten cores and so a worse yield. In reality, big chips always have a worse yield.

AMD have rumoured yields of 60% or so, though I would guess that might be an average, with 57XX cores bumping the average up significantly, wouldn't be surprised to see the 58XX versions with a lower yield than that.


Anyway the only really important info is production in 3rd week of feb. Thats, well, not good news, if production starts in 3rd week of Feb, you won't even start to get finished wafers back till 2nd week of April, after which you're looking at another two weeks going from Nvidia, to the board makers, to the distro's then the shops. That will be without ANY time to build up a small supply. Normally they'll start production and wait 2-4weeks to build up a small stockpile. If they release from the first second possible, basically 8 weeks after production starts, you're looking at basically very few cards going out on a weekly basis. If yield are ultra low than that supply is even worse.

The strange thing is, they were due A3 silicon back basically 1st week of Jan, thats another 6 weeks till production is due to start. Thats a heck of a lot of testing they seem to be wanting to do and a long time waiting to put it into production.

Whats also obviously possible is in production from whoever told them, means the getting the cores back from the Fab part and "producing" the finished cards ready for shipping is what they are counting as production, which is an odd way to put it. Which would roughly tie in with final finished A3 silicon is back, tested and they've approved production.

Which could mean limited supplys mid March, but weeks/months before theres decent supply as they certainly don't have time to build up a stock of chips before release.
 
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I'm guessing that a "few" cards in mid march to reviews and enthusiasts to overclock and set records would suffice for Nvidia.

If they perform well and the price is known, people will wait for them to be available to buy rather than buy ATI.

Of course, that will mean the usual price premium on early cards and means that ATI won't drop their price until Fermi appears in numbers.
 
I'm guessing that a "few" cards in mid march to reviews and enthusiasts to overclock and set records would suffice for Nvidia.

If they perform well and the price is known, people will wait for them to be available to buy rather than buy ATI.

Of course, that will mean the usual price premium on early cards and means that ATI won't drop their price until Fermi appears in numbers.
it's alright, will give ATi a number to hit with it's refresh. on this timescale, by the time nvidia get a reasonable amount of parts out, ATi would be ready for a refresh. nvidia need to get some pretty good numbers at reasonable prices to be in with a shot this generation
 
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