Brothers who tortured kids are given 5 yrs

[jp_bl_68]

<polishes up my best keyboard>

Shouldn't the carers be held to account in cases like this? After all, they raised them to be like this, it's not as if the brothers were old enough to make decisions like this themselves.

The parents/family/guardians should be investigated and possibly even prosecuted for contributing to this attack.

A 5 year indeterminate sentence doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, it's the fact that they'll only be on the sex offenders register for 3 years that worries me.

 

[Dolph]

Another thread with a misrepresented indeterminate sentence?

Indeterminate sentencing is the harshest punishment that can be given by the courts. The minimum time in jail prevents us keeping those who have actually been reformed and no longer a risk to society in jail unnecessary.

 

[NeilF]

THATS WHERE THE PROBLEM STARTS!

Shouting for a reason. What you have stated, thats the problem. There is no responsibility, no self-responsibility. You've just removed it by asking who failed the boys. They failed. They failed society by their actions. They are old enough to know what they did was wrong.
Stop looking to shift the blame.
If these two kids were taken and publically shredded, and the footage placed on youtube, and well advertised that any doing the same would suffer the same fate. no one would do it again.

I am not suggesting brinign back hanging, but how about we bring back a little bit of responsibility, so the govt doesn't have to set a new law each week to tell us what we can and can't do. Let people make up their own minds on what they want to do, but utterly brutalise them if they go over the well predefined lines.

I would publically shred these two, I don't care what remorse they have shown, they could serve as a shining example of deterrant to everyone else in the country and it'll save the taxpayer half a million or more in jailtime and a similar amount to generate them new identities.

Don't agree... Are they blameless? Of course not - They new what they were doing was wrong.

HOWEVER, at their young age, they were not totally responsible for their actions. Their parents must be held accountable at least in someway for "loading these guns"...

 

[Destination]

I agree with you that the parents should be held accountable in some form, but when some won't even hold the children accountable there is no point discussing the parents.

Shred the children, and we will see a lower incidence of this occurring.
Deal with the parents after, compulsary sterilisation would be a start.

 

[Rich_L]

I'm pretty sure capital punishment for children still in primary school probably isn't the way forward.

 

[Efour]

Lost for words really but this is what happens when feral kids grow up with no real parental guidance i guess.

There is no redemption for people like this, they are mentally wasted as they didn't even understand what they were doing to be wrong. They don't belong in society any more.

Its easier to just nip some things in the bud rather than try to care for them for the rest of their lives.

 

[NeilF]

Lost for words really but this is what happens when feral kids grow up with no real parental guidance i guess.

There is no redemption for people like this, they are mentally wasted as they didn't even understand what they were doing to be wrong. They don't belong in society any more.

Its easier to just nip some things in the bud rather than try to care for them for the rest of their lives.

They're two of seven brothers aren't they? Who can afford to have seven kids these days? Oh yeh, people on welfare!

 

[antijoke]

snip!

I agree with you that the parents should be held accountable in some form, but when some won't even hold the children accountable there is no point discussing the parents.

Shred the children, and we will see a lower incidence of this occurring.
Deal with the parents after, compulsary sterilisation would be a start.

Easy tiger.

I'm not saying they have no responsiblity for what they did, I was asking who has failed these boys for them to carry out such attrocities? Was it society for not picking up on their behaviour before things got to this level?

Is it the parents for raising them in such a depraved environment?

Should the social services have removed these children from the family home?

Yes these boys must be held responsible, but they have also been let down to have been raised in that manor.

 

[kwerk]

The 2 brothers lived in the same area me, I didn't know of them but have a couple of friends who lived a few doors down from them and apparently they've been causing trouble for years, smashing up cars, terrorizing neighbours and so on. I also briefly know one of the relatives of one of the victims and there's supposedly a lot more which went on which didn't make the media, she wouldn't go into details and I didn't want to ask but it just makes you wonder what state of mind these people are in. Plenty of people grow up in "broken homes" but they don't go round torturing/sexually assaulting children, especially at such a young age.

Sounds like it could have been nipped in the bud much earlier. Those sort of people start off with small stuff like vandalism, burning things, then abusing animals, then this sort of thing.

A few whacks with a birch rod at the first sign of trouble would have been the answer 50 years ago.

I blame this PC nanny state idiocy. I'm sure trip to Butlins and 5 years of Xbox gaming in a secure home will fix it .

 

[Dolph]

Sounds like it could have been nipped in the bud much earlier. Those sort of people start off with small stuff like vandalism, burning things, then abusing animals, then this sort of thing.

A few whacks with a birch rod at the first sign of trouble would have been the answer 50 years ago.

I blame this PC nanny state idiocy. I'm sure trip to Butlins and 5 years of Xbox gaming in a secure home will fix it .

Because there was no crime when we had capital punishment available throughout childhood?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell

 

[steve-h]

Hard to know what to do really, keep them in jail for years at taxpayers expense, or relocate them at taxpayers expense?

First one obviously LOL?

I thought you were going to be on the lines of putting them down or jailing them forever, not relocating them :/

 

[Dolph]

First one obviously LOL?

I thought you were going to be on the lines of putting them down or jailing them forever, not relocating them :/

If we can rehabilitate them (as we did Mary Bell by all accounts given no repeat offences), should we still keep them in prison?

Child criminals are an odd one, because while it can be just their nature, it is also possible to be a result of the upbringing they are subjected to and therefore what they perceive as normal or acceptable?

 

[kwerk]

Because there was no crime when we had capital punishment available throughout childhood?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell

Did she receive any birchings or other corporal punishment at the earliest sign of trouble?

 

[The Running Man]

yes.

what i percieve to not be acceptable is letting them loose.

 

[steve-h]

If we can rehabilitate them (as we did Mary Bell by all accounts given no repeat offences), should we still keep them in prison?

Child criminals are an odd one, because while it can be just their nature, it is also possible to be a result of the upbringing they are subjected to and therefore what they perceive as normal or acceptable?

Sorry have you read the article?

Whole family needs to be assassinated tbh.

 

[Dolph]

Sorry have you read the article?

Whole family needs to be assassinated tbh.

Yes, I just happen to believe we should actually try and help people before they are declared beyond redemption.

It is clear the mother and father should not be allowed to have responsibility for children, but then again, local authority care is hardly a nice place to be either...

 

[Pish]

punching, kicking maybe some of the lesser actions that took place that day can be written off as bad upbringing and lack of respect etc etc

dropping a sink on someones head and the sexual acts......you would know thats wrong, even if you were raised by pack animals, you have to be sick of mind not too, especially sick if you then got a buzz of it

for me, jail no. Constant mental health care in a secure environment away from the public ..yes

 

[Glaucus]

what i percieve to not be acceptable is letting them loose.

why?
They are young with a bad upbringing if at sometime they no longer pose a threat, why keep them in prison.

dropping a sink on someones head and the sexual acts......you would know thats wrong, even if you were raised by pack animals, you have to be sick of mind not too, especially sick if you then got a buzz of it
s

But as has been shown, people who are sexually abuse, can go onto to abuse others. So no it's not"you would know thats wrong, even if you were raised by pack animals". If they can rehabilitated there is no point locking them up till death. Which is why they get the sentence they got, they could be in care for life.

The mother of one of their victims, from Edlington, near Doncaster, said she was disgusted that her taxes would be used to give ‘these nasty boys the best education’

I know she must be going through a lot, but how stupid. Unfortunately most people think like this. Education should be a major part of all prisons. Why lock someone up only to release them with little chance of being useful to society.

 

[steve-h]

Yes, I just happen to believe we should actually try and help people before they are declared beyond redemption.

I don't believe you can change somebody, not truly.

After 5 years of rehabilitation, would you be happy for him to move into the house next to you and your family, with young children?

 

[Dolph]

Did she receive any birchings or other corporal punishment at the earliest sign of trouble?

What signs of trouble?

In that case, there weren't really any, even after the first murder.

However, corporal punishment was still a common feature in schools at the time, as it was for any of the murderers who went to school in the 40s and 50's (for example, Peter Sutcliffe or Ian Brady) so it is highly likely they were birched.

Still, don't let the lack of a deterrent or rehabilitation factor get in the way of demanding the punishment is brought back, I'm sure there are other reasons why it would be a good idea.