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- Thread starter Big.Wayne
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Soldato
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I went for PII 965, cheaper than i7 and doesn't effect my most cpu intensive task, gaming.
For certain usages AMD is very, very much the better bang for buck.
I have people in the small form factor forums speccing HTPC with i3's now and I try to point out that an AMD dual core 240 or Sempron 140 (I have this in my HTPC) does the same job at half the price. Hell, isn't the Sempon 140 like 60-80% cheaper or summit daft?
For certain usages AMD is very, very much the better bang for buck.
I have people in the small form factor forums speccing HTPC with i3's now and I try to point out that an AMD dual core 240 or Sempron 140 (I have this in my HTPC) does the same job at half the price. Hell, isn't the Sempon 140 like 60-80% cheaper or summit daft?
Caporegime
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Actually the Athlon II X4 620 build the OP listed has integrated graphics whereas the Core i7 920 still needs a graphics card making it more expensive in the first place.
Also from results I have seen on other forums and websites an Athlon II X4 in most non-gaming tasks is still very similar to an equivalent to a Phenom II clock for clock.
Also from results I have seen on other forums and websites an Athlon II X4 in most non-gaming tasks is still very similar to an equivalent to a Phenom II clock for clock.
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Off Topic:
Indeed Oxy, the little Sempron is seemingly being given away, very tempted actually although I'll be wanting to pair it with a HDMI enabled AM2+ £35 quid mobo (which I didn't souce yet!) to give a 2GB set of Crucial Special 10th DDR2 somewhere to live . . . although this is good conversation we should save for the next thread!
Caporegime
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Off Topic:
Indeed Oxy, the little Sempron is seemingly being given away, very tempted actually although I'll be wanting to pair it with a HDMI enabled AM2+ £35 quid mobo (which I didn't souce yet!) to give a 2GB set of Crucial Special 10th DDR2 somewhere to live . . . although this is good conversation we should save for the next thread!
I have known quite a few people who have managed to unlock it to a dual core.
The following Asrock motherboard is relatively cheap(under £45) and has ACC:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=A780GM-LE/128M&s=AM2+
It also dedicated RAM for the 780G IGP and people have unlocked the Sempron 140 with it:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233254
It's a good point Cat, plenty of non-gamer power-users out there that could make good use of the IGP! . . . I will be removing my 512MB HD 4870 tomorrow to sell and switching back to the HD 4200 IGP. It's quite a neat feature actually for those of us who swap out GPU's often . . . yeah I know you could get around this situation by keeping a backup descreet GPU to use while you sell and buy a new card but the IGP removes this need . . . not a huge selling point but handy none the less!
I also want to see how much further the IGP can be clocked, comes at stock 500MHz but using the ASUS GPU-NOS feature I had it up to 800MHz with not too much effort, only stopped there because the normally cool running northbridge began getting hot with the increased voltage & frequency but not something a small fan won't sort out!
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Yeah I didn't fully get to the bottom of this yet? The Denebs 6MB L3 cache helps it a lot in certain scenarios but yet fails to make any difference in other situations . . . the only sensible suggestion I've come across so far is that the Propus core has a re-worked IMC which helps it shrug off the missing cache, nice bit of work from the AMD engineers most likey!
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Associate
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Interesting Big Wayne. Im currently planning a build for my GF's dad. He runs a pentium 4 system atm and is a professional photographer. He picked out a £700 Dell that could be built for £500 but im looking at what truely is the best value for money. Although your post doesn't cover the actual processors i was looking at, it has made me re-consider what I was planning to do. Since its not a personal build I won't be overclocking it either, other wise the athlonII 425 hands down wins for value. Benchmarks put it equal to the phenomII 720 at stock and when both are overclocked. So looking at stock:-
1. i5 750 vs phenomII 955
-AMD £40 cheaper
-AMD hex core upgrade possible
+ Intel can shut down two cores for speed bump which is very benificial since photo editing isn't heavily multi threaded. (does anyone know if CS5 will be? )
Since reading the post tho Im thinking about how much difference would there be between
i5 750 vs i3(cant remember the number) vs athlonII 620 vs phenomII 550 vs phenomII 720 vs PhenomII 955
Basically would I take too big a hit to performance for the saving. Comming from a pentium 4 the difference in any of these systems will be huge. Price per performance is very hard to calculate. Im away to ponder some more and see if I can get him to let me overclock.
On the topic of balance what I have noticed is that dropping down from a i7 920 to a phenomII 955 (or lower for gaming) leaves enough of a budget to install a SSD. HDD's are very limited speed wise and loading, reading and writing would be greatly improved. Again uses of the computer permitting aswell as budget. For me the athlonII 425 + a SSD would be far better balance and value for money then an i7 920 + its benifits. My main tasks are gaming, but I have started encoding DVD's to watch on my PSP.
1. i5 750 vs phenomII 955
-AMD £40 cheaper
-AMD hex core upgrade possible
+ Intel can shut down two cores for speed bump which is very benificial since photo editing isn't heavily multi threaded. (does anyone know if CS5 will be? )
Since reading the post tho Im thinking about how much difference would there be between
i5 750 vs i3(cant remember the number) vs athlonII 620 vs phenomII 550 vs phenomII 720 vs PhenomII 955
Basically would I take too big a hit to performance for the saving. Comming from a pentium 4 the difference in any of these systems will be huge. Price per performance is very hard to calculate. Im away to ponder some more and see if I can get him to let me overclock.
On the topic of balance what I have noticed is that dropping down from a i7 920 to a phenomII 955 (or lower for gaming) leaves enough of a budget to install a SSD. HDD's are very limited speed wise and loading, reading and writing would be greatly improved. Again uses of the computer permitting aswell as budget. For me the athlonII 425 + a SSD would be far better balance and value for money then an i7 920 + its benifits. My main tasks are gaming, but I have started encoding DVD's to watch on my PSP.
Off Topic:
however sadly pretty much 99% of your post is off topic and it won't really be possible to get a full in depth analysis of so many different possible hardware choices, at least not properly anyway or with the with full consideration it deseves.
Obviously the sample Athlon II X4 spec in the opening post would be an stunning system for your girlfriends Dad with the extra budget going towards an SSD and perhaps an enhanced display to give that "Wow" factor!
By all means feel free to make yourself a new thread specifically dedicated to the project and I'll drop by and give you some help if you need it . . . . I'm a professional photographer also who uses Photoshop so I may be to provide some perspective!
Hello feeddagoat, thanks for your interest!
however sadly pretty much 99% of your post is off topic and it won't really be possible to get a full in depth analysis of so many different possible hardware choices, at least not properly anyway or with the with full consideration it deseves.
Obviously the sample Athlon II X4 spec in the opening post would be an stunning system for your girlfriends Dad with the extra budget going towards an SSD and perhaps an enhanced display to give that "Wow" factor!
By all means feel free to make yourself a new thread specifically dedicated to the project and I'll drop by and give you some help if you need it . . . . I'm a professional photographer also who uses Photoshop so I may be to provide some perspective!
a very interesting read big.wayne although i have to admit im for the i7 and i also have to say i rarely use it to its potential but well.... im an enthusiast and having the best kit i can is just what i love doing. sometimes i look at my bank balance and wish i didnt but thats another story.
its also nice to see that you carefully read through the replies and take the time to answer each and every individual question without shooting people down and flaming them
its also nice to see that you carefully read through the replies and take the time to answer each and every individual question without shooting people down and flaming them
Thank you jakspyder!
You and me both brother!
You and me both brother!
I think *in theory* that's how the forum is meant to work but the reality is . . . well it just doesn't always work out that way heh!its also nice to see that you carefully read through the replies and take the time to answer each and every individual question without shooting people down and flaming them
I personally believe I can learn something from every single person I speak with and basically I'm here to learn myself so polite and light chatter works for me. I'd like to see OcUK forum stand out from every other forum in the world and be something really special but that is only gonna happen when everyone gets along better and is more tolerant of each others views and ideas!
I'm really pleased a few people have enjoyed the thread and I hope it helps some view the AMD Athlon II in a new light, horses for courses etc!
<ot>
Do it and don't tell him?!!
By the way, even the most lowly of modern desktop processors will own a p4.
</ot>
Do it and don't tell him?!!
By the way, even the most lowly of modern desktop processors will own a p4.
</ot>
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Iv'e thought of just putting in an AntlonII 240 since it would be a monster improvement lol. The thought has crossed my mind just to OC but the extra heat and noise would be a negative. I could look into two profiles, again another reason i5 appeals.
Thanks big wayne. A post will be appearing in general hardware in the next few days. Just getting my last exam out of the way today then gonna sit down and price things. Interestingly he was willing to spend £700 but tbh £500 is more than enough for what he needs. I was set on just going for the i5 but athlon's aren't as far behind as I imagined.
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Great thread Wayne.
I've always known that AMD were the best bang for your buck, and I used them exclusively from Socket A right through to AM2+, the systems I used to build for myself were always cheap and cheerful, and they did everything I wanted them to as well.
However, with my last 2 builds, I really felt like a change, I started getting more into overclocking, and I'd seen lots of folk on various forums getting huge overclocks with Nehalem processors, and all the reviews I'd read online and in magazines said that they were amazing chips, so I decided that after 8 years of using nothing but AMD it was time for me to move onto something else for a change.
I had the spare cash at the time to blast on a high end system, so I chose Intel, and I really haven't regretted it at all.
These systems I have are overkill for my uses, but that's besides the point, I had plenty of cash at my disposal, and I was getting bored with AMD after using them for all those years.
Also, I probably won't do a big overhaul of my systems again for quite some time now... well, that's what I like to tell myself anyway!!!!
I've always known that AMD were the best bang for your buck, and I used them exclusively from Socket A right through to AM2+, the systems I used to build for myself were always cheap and cheerful, and they did everything I wanted them to as well.
However, with my last 2 builds, I really felt like a change, I started getting more into overclocking, and I'd seen lots of folk on various forums getting huge overclocks with Nehalem processors, and all the reviews I'd read online and in magazines said that they were amazing chips, so I decided that after 8 years of using nothing but AMD it was time for me to move onto something else for a change.
I had the spare cash at the time to blast on a high end system, so I chose Intel, and I really haven't regretted it at all.
These systems I have are overkill for my uses, but that's besides the point, I had plenty of cash at my disposal, and I was getting bored with AMD after using them for all those years.
Also, I probably won't do a big overhaul of my systems again for quite some time now... well, that's what I like to tell myself anyway!!!!
Caporegime
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It seems that an Athlon II X3 425 which costs around £55 beats a £70+ Pentium G6950 in most applications:
http://en.inpai.com.cn/doc/enshowcont.asp?id=7506&pageid=6619
Get a 770-C45 for around £50 to £55 in either its DDR2 or DDR3 version and the Athlon II could be overclocked a reasonable amount.
If you are lucky you maybe able to unlock the extra core. If you are very unlucky it maybe a Deneb based example which could be unlocked to a Phenom II.
The X3 425 is significantly cheaper than a X4 620 but lacks one core but is clocked higher.
The X3 435 which is around £60 to £65 is not three times slower than a Core i7 920:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=112&p2=47
This excludes the cost of socket 1366 motherboards which are well over £100!
In gaming at 1680X1050 the Core i7 920 has a maximum of 70% higher framerates to a minimum of a around 5%.
The game which showed the lowest framerates was FarCry2 and even then it was something like 40FPS with the X3 435 at 1680X1050.
http://en.inpai.com.cn/doc/enshowcont.asp?id=7506&pageid=6619
Get a 770-C45 for around £50 to £55 in either its DDR2 or DDR3 version and the Athlon II could be overclocked a reasonable amount.
If you are lucky you maybe able to unlock the extra core. If you are very unlucky it maybe a Deneb based example which could be unlocked to a Phenom II.
The X3 425 is significantly cheaper than a X4 620 but lacks one core but is clocked higher.
The X3 435 which is around £60 to £65 is not three times slower than a Core i7 920:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=112&p2=47
This excludes the cost of socket 1366 motherboards which are well over £100!
In gaming at 1680X1050 the Core i7 920 has a maximum of 70% higher framerates to a minimum of a around 5%.
The game which showed the lowest framerates was FarCry2 and even then it was something like 40FPS with the X3 435 at 1680X1050.
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Heh thanks Pendu!
While your here may I ask what your personal thoughts are on this subject? i.e AIIX4 vs Core i7
Did you check out the included bench results?
On the basis of pure numbers, i have yet to see a consistant performance from the i7 to give it the "twice as powerful" moniker.
I would like to know what Intel uses, to benchmark AMD CPUs so that they can price their processors accordingly. My guess would be they don't.
I think the extra premium also comes from the fact that Intel thinks itself as more a brand. Perhaps they feel they are worth the premium.
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The issue with diminishing returns is not new to be honest. High end processors always costed disproportionately more compared to mid range and low end processors. Enthusiasts will buy them as long as they are not terribly priced, and the i7 920 is really for enthusiasts. It overclocks consistently a lot. Sure its due for a refresh with 32nm out soon but that's besides the point. Its been here for a long time now.
What is also true, is that today we can get a lot of processing power for little money and the Athlon make good HTPC processors and would probably be ideal for 80% of general PC users who only use office and the internet. A blind test would be really interesting to check what people would think is the better system though.
What is also true, is that today we can get a lot of processing power for little money and the Athlon make good HTPC processors and would probably be ideal for 80% of general PC users who only use office and the internet. A blind test would be really interesting to check what people would think is the better system though.
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What?!?!
I'd say that this is one of the most popular chips for us enthusiasts atm....
Soldato
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The way I see it, Intel invests money in new tech, and sells its old stuff to PC selling chains. For example, some places are still selling pentium 4's and core 2's. Whereas AMD tends to not bother with the newest, most powerful technology, and invests money in creating bang-for-buck processors instead.
Even though trends say Intel is more common (probably just due to marketing and dirty tactics, cough cough), AMD processors are probably a lot more suited to the home user.
Even though trends say Intel is more common (probably just due to marketing and dirty tactics, cough cough), AMD processors are probably a lot more suited to the home user.
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