ATi OWNED Nvidia Beats Em Even Without Fermi

[Hairybudda]

I want both companies to produce good cards that I can choose between with my budget.

This is exacly how it should be, while right now I'm more into ATi, if fermi comes out with better bang for buck at my price range once the price wars start I will have no qualms about going green again!

 

[Owenb]

The good news is that Intel won't have the luxury of releasing a new IGP with minimal performance gains for a lot time. I am really interested to see how Intel will react in 2011 when AMD releases processors based on a new architecture. Intel will be releasing Sandy Bridge but if the IGP solutions on the new AMD processors are much better then big OEMs and some consumers will jump ship because of it.

Intel must be burning some serious money in designing the IGP that will be hosted in the Sandy Bridge CPU.

Why? Intel's IGP have always been crap yet they dominate the market. Once it runs windows and plays video nobody cares.

 

[honvik]

I'll tell you something...... The Warz Between ATI/Nvidia means one thing.

A better product for us...... the main issue I have is GAMES cannot complete with the power of these cards and therefore really we need better scalable games that can really work our new cards. Therefore it will run on lower end but look good and should u wish turn on Turbo mode.

Sadly this wont happen and still no reason for me to spend £300 from my 4870X2 (had zero issues with it) when I could use it to do works to my home or small break or a couple nights getting slaughtered lol

 

[Freddie1980]

erm.. yea.. That is kind of the point I was making.

Yes but you also said Nvidia had gained market share which was the point I was addressing.

Well Nvidia have flooded the market with cheap and cheerful low end parts. It's to be expected that market share would increase in that case.

 

[Rroff]

snip...

The case in point is the enthusiast/high end figures, no one is arguing nvidia didn't see decline in the overall figures.

 

[layte]

Yes but you also said Nvidia had gained market share which was the point I was addressing.

When compared to the previous qtr. I didn't think that needed to be explicitly stated.

 

[RizlaKing]

What is high end in the mind of nvidia right now because the 260 while a great card is not high end and you have more chance of finding rocking horse poo then 285's or 295's in stock these days. As long as companys can label things what they want we will never have a definitive answer i mean amd could come out tomorrow and announce a 5770 as high end with anything above that being super high end doesn't make it so though does it.

 

[timmy222]

ok let nvidia wipe the floor with ati.
I hope you fan boys like it.
And then I will pay good money to watch you weep as nvidia have no effective competition, and we all have to buy sub standard over priced carp.
But hey that's no matter - nvidia really did win in more ways then one after all.

 

[kylew]

ok let nvidia wipe the floor with ati.
I hope you fan boys like it.
And then I will pay good money to watch you weep as nvidia have no effective competition, and we all have to buy sub standard over priced carp.
But hey that's no matter - nvidia really did win in more ways then one after all.

Cool story, bro!

 

[bru]

you have more chance of finding rocking horse poo then 285's or 295's in stock these days.

funny you say that seeing as all types of the Nvidia 200 range are instock at this very store. (theres 2 295's instock at teh time of posting)....

 

[Rimsy]

never seen so many people in denial in one thread. this forum has no sense of reality

You should check the ocuk apple forum out then... will have you mind reeling within seconds.

 

[Calabi]

It sounds true to me. Publicity of a sub par product beats no publicity of an above par product(I'm not saying Ati havent advertised their products just perhaps not as well or as much as Nvidia).

Nvidia have this imbedded reputation of reliability and quality which they can live off, for quite some time.

I've seen it in lots of forums, in spite of the current problems Nvidia are having and Ati having the best products, Nvidia gets the recommendation because the perception is that they have the more reliable cards/drivers. People go with past perception even if it doesnt fit with the current situation.

I dont think for Fermi to succeed they will have to do much, it just has to be a bit better than Ati and it will sell a lot, just because of their long time built up reputation.

I'm betting whatever the specs or performance, heat, power, of Nvidias fermi it will outself anything, Ati have, barring some major catastrophic problem with the product.

 

[rhys216]

@bru

Lol! Yeh, like just turned up after months of non stock.

 

[achitophel]

All those who are finding this hard to believe - despite the numbers apparently backing up this guy's report- need to take a step back from the situation.

These forums may be a community of hardware enthusiasts (or at least people who take a little initiative into researching their purchases) but it can't be taken as an accurate sample for the computer buying public as a whole.

Yes, in the last 2-3 months I'd find it incredibly hard to believe that nvidia outsold ATI with forums members, but we're a tiny fraction of the total picture here, not a representative sample of the market.

It's also a commonly held view that the majority of sales come from the low-mid end, well ATI have only just launched their lower end parts, whereas nvidia released their dx10.1 low end parts some time ago.

Oh and finally, to those saying this guy is nvidias charlie and such like, you're wrong. Yes the article is showing that things aren't all doom and gloom for nvidia, that doesn't mean he's an anti ATI fanboiiii from hell. Look at the language he uses. AMD's rep is a spokesman, whereas nvidia's is a spinner. The 5000 series of cards are called almighty, the 200s are called old tat. Hardly pro nvidia.

+1

This is a technology forum, and to be fair a cutting edge one at that. It is in no way a forum where people demonstrate reserves of knowledge on financial analysis, profitability, cashflow and corporate capitalisation.

It is in fact frequently the opposite - lots of post speculating on costs of wafer production etc in considerable detail and working out that companies must be price gouging because their cost of production should only be X, without ever even considering amortisation / depreciation of R&D and indirect cost recovery.

Basically, without MUCH more data, it's pointless speculating and at the very least people should be linking to either published quarterly reports or investment banking reports etc.

 

[rhys216]

Don't you just love it when people 'think' they know what their talking about, and try to show off!
Probably just completed his AAT.

 

[Greebo]

I'm more interested in reading the Steam hardware surveys which give a better (but not great) picture of which way PC gamers are going and what their buying.

Untrue. It gives a snapshot of the average steam user and not what they are buying in a fashion.

Only when they do a trend anlaysis or you look at the raw data over several months do you get an indication of what people buying and even then it's flawed.

According to steam the most popolur pc spec of a steam user is as follows:

Windows xp 32bit
2 gb ram
Intel dual core processor running between 2.3 and 2.9Ghz.
An 8800 card
A 1280 x 1024 display
On board sound

On that basis using the Steam stats, hardly anybody is buying anything computer related for 3 years or so or even a new computer.

Also looking at the trends is meaningless. The biggest increase in the last 5 months has been the 4800 series of cards.

Hell even NVidia 7800 and 7900 have seen massive gains. In fact the two added together almost matches the increase in the Nvidia 8800 series of cards.

So it's more a case of people with older computers have finally joined steam so it the stats give no useful indication really of current hardware sales IMO.

 

[drunkenmaster]

The case in point is the enthusiast/high end figures, no one is arguing nvidia didn't see decline in the overall figures.

http://www.techeye.net/chips/nvidia-beats-amd-even-without-fermi

Where exactly are the enthusiast/high end figures exactly?

Assuming the ones you eluded to earlier are real, (you mentioned talking about the figures previously) and you can link them, do they state what time frame they include, where the data comes from and what cards its talking about?

Because do you expect £125 "high end Nvidia" 260gtx's to sell less than a 5970 "high end AMD" card?

Or as I mentioned, if several companies all put in orders for 1million Cypress's a pop in August, for delivery over the year, and Nvidia's partners place their orders for 1million Fermi's in November, to be delivered over the next year, can you not see how both would sell the same amount, the only change, is the date the order is placed, and nothing more.

Either way, the significant figures aren't numbers, sales, types of cards, its revenue and profit per card, which is where Nvidia have suffered, for a LOT longer than Fermi's been delayed, they've been making reduced profit for well over a year with tighter than tight margins on 260gtx's, which has seen several of their partners switch to AMD or stop selling in certain regions altogether.

Basically numbers, can be screwed almost any which way, except the VERY basic numbers. Number pre and post a big launch will be different, numbers pre/post recession will be different as can be seen. When you look at those numbers in terms of year on year growth in the quarter, in the height of the crash last Xmas to this quarter, Intel have sold over 100% more graphics cores this quarter, AMD almost a 100% increase, Nvidia less than 50% increase, even worse, those 50% extra were all at reduced profit compared to AMD.

Theres simply no way those numbers can be spun positively for Nvidia unless you look a truly stupid and narrow view of one specific situation ignoring all the reasoning completely.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Gills if you feel the forum is ati biased why bother coming on and posting i doubt you moaned so much when this forum was completely pro nvidia at the time of the 8800 release did you. This is a case of where figures don't tell the whole story and while yes technically nvidia have increased market share it isn't in a way that can be carried on medium to long term. Also clearly increasing market share whilst losing money is also not very good and i would imagine right now given the choice ati would stay as they are.

It isn't ATi biased, as if he goes back to when it was Nvidia who had the next gen cards out (the 8800's), and ATi were the ones who didn't have theirs coming for 6+ months plus after, then he would have seen this forum Nvidia, as every man and his dog was right up Nvidias arse then, as its what happens, so once Nvidia get back on top again, and ATi go back to being on the rack, he'll see everyone going back up Nvidias arse again.

 

[atpbx]

I only ever used to buy Nvidia cards, as until the Radeon 9800 Pro, ATi hadnt released a card in its history that was a worthwhile purchase for a gaming PC.

It then went on to not realease a part worth buying till the 4800 series many years later.
As it stands ATI are the only choice, Nvidia seem to want you to pay through the arse for inferior products at every performance level, where as a few years ago, they were very much value for money.
When they released the original Geforce 256, it was incredible, and also, not expensive.

 

[Rroff]

http://www.techeye.net/chips/nvidia-beats-amd-even-without-fermi

Where exactly are the enthusiast/high end figures exactly?

Assuming the ones you eluded to earlier are real, (you mentioned talking about the figures previously) and you can link them, do they state what time frame they include, where the data comes from and what cards its talking about?

Because do you expect £125 "high end Nvidia" 260gtx's to sell less than a 5970 "high end AMD" card?

Or as I mentioned, if several companies all put in orders for 1million Cypress's a pop in August, for delivery over the year, and Nvidia's partners place their orders for 1million Fermi's in November, to be delivered over the next year, can you not see how both would sell the same amount, the only change, is the date the order is placed, and nothing more.

Either way, the significant figures aren't numbers, sales, types of cards, its revenue and profit per card, which is where Nvidia have suffered, for a LOT longer than Fermi's been delayed, they've been making reduced profit for well over a year with tighter than tight margins on 260gtx's, which has seen several of their partners switch to AMD or stop selling in certain regions altogether.

Basically numbers, can be screwed almost any which way, except the VERY basic numbers. Number pre and post a big launch will be different, numbers pre/post recession will be different as can be seen. When you look at those numbers in terms of year on year growth in the quarter, in the height of the crash last Xmas to this quarter, Intel have sold over 100% more graphics cores this quarter, AMD almost a 100% increase, Nvidia less than 50% increase, even worse, those 50% extra were all at reduced profit compared to AMD.

Theres simply no way those numbers can be spun positively for Nvidia unless you look a truly stupid and narrow view of one specific situation ignoring all the reasoning completely.

Your missing the point... everyone made a big deal of how the ATI 5 series would grab back market share of the gaming sector from nVidia... and all indications would seem to indicate that... yet when the figures came back for this sector of the market for the period(s) where this should start to happen the trend was infact the complete opposite. No ones actually taking it too seriously or seriously suggesting nVidia is really beating ATI on the gaming GPU front... tho some of the ATI "fanboys" seem to get a little worked up over it.