I despair of the Human Race...

scorza said:
LOL no - the last trial for witchcraft might have been in 1944 but they haven't executed in Europe for centuries.
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You're right, but they were locked away in asylums and subjected to involuntary, brain damaging, electroshock therapy (later renamed "electroconvulsive therapy" to make it sound more acceptable). This, btw, is still legal in this country and no reliable research has shown it to be at all effective.

If we want to talk about barbaric behaviour we should take a long hard look at the society which shapes them. Clearly in this case their parents failed them, the social services failed them and the education system failed them. The fact these individuals killed someone before anyone noticed / bothered to do anything is quite telling.

I get around said:
They were killed because of stupidity.
This man was tormented for kicks, it's completely different.
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How do you know this? Were you there? If they got a kick out of tormenting people and had an excuse wouldn't they use it? I'm pretty sure with people being pretty much biologically identical a few hundred years ago the only difference between us now and then is education / access to knowledge.

I'm also pretty sure I'd class most problem youths as uneducated, ignorant yobs. A few years ago there was a study on violent offenders in American prisons. Almost 2/3rds were illiterate and almost as many were innumerate. It's becoming increasingly difficult to deny a lack of education as a leading cause for crime, especially violent crime.

If you (the society as a whole) does not deal with these problems this is the result.

Ignorance is no excuse.
 
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The guys life was made to go so a skew :(

Those kids need to be found and then named and shamed, in fact any person who does something like this needs to be named and shamed so the public know who they are that way someone can teach them how to be human beings in whatever way necessary.
 
its hard to come up with a reason why, but remembering my youth and observations, this is just typical of kids to target the weak, my gripe is , he shouldn't have been living where he did, he should have been looked after somewhere , and not expected to live like someone who could handle themselves psychologically in these kind of situations.
 
Khaaan! said:
The guys life was made to go so a skew :(

Those kids need to be found and then named and shamed, in fact any person who does something like this needs to be named and shamed so the public know who they are that way someone can teach them how to be human beings in whatever way necessary.
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Trouble is that naming and shaming these morons gives them kudos in the pathetic circles of friends that they keep
 
Can't really put my first thoughts down because I'd get suspended or banned, and probably rightly so. My heart bleeds for that poor old boy / his friends and family.
 
maustin said:
There is quite a bit actually ... I have personally seen it to be effective - was back in 1997 I think though. Somewhere around that time anyway.
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Firstly, how anyone can believe involuntary electrically induced seizers to be a "good thing" is utterly beyond me. You are essentially causing random brain damage. This is not science, this belongs with the witchdoctors and shamans of old.

Secondly the research that showed it to be effective did not show it to be effective beyond a few months and placebo controlled research has since discredited the effect entirely, hence the "reliable" in my quote. The World Health Organisation themselves claim it should only be used on a voluntary basis and it is banned in many countries. I have seen first hand the effect this treatment has, it is nothing short of barbarism.
 
If you (the society as a whole) does not deal with these problems this is the result.
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It isn't societys responsibility, it's down to the parents. And this is why there are so many bad parents, they don't realise that it is THEIR responsibility what their kids get up to. It is their responibility to instill a sense of right and wrong, to teach their kid that being jobless is a bad thing and that being part of a wrongdoing gang makes you scum.

You can blame it on society, drugs, violence on tv or whatever you like but ultimately it comes down to bad parenting. People think the television is a babysitter nowadays I swear because even people at my age are a bunch of lazy idiots who don't take anything seriously.

How do you know this? Were you there? If they got a kick out of tormenting people and had an excuse wouldn't they use it? I'm pretty sure with people being pretty much biologically identical a few hundred years ago the only difference between us now and then is education / access to knowledge.
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You don't need to be a genius to work out the bloke was being taunted by a bunch of jobless chav scum that deserve to die.

You also don't need to be a genius to work out that witches were killed because people were stupid enough to believe in witchcraft. You quite rightly said that the only thing that has changed is our knowledge since then. And that is my point, people get killed for stupid reasons throughout time, but it is more and more common that people are sick and selfish, with no knowledge of right and wrong.
 
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The law is not equipped to deal with people who are scum, the problem is they don't care about anything, and you can't impose massive penalties on small acts, the problem is they add up and can make life a total misery.
 
What on earth is all the fuss about?
The guy wasn't gangraped and killed. He keeled over and died at the age of 64. Don't get me wrong, it's unfortunate that he was taunted and bullied by a troop of bottomfeeding knuckledraggers; but I think the Daily Fail has somewhat sensationalised this story. From what I could gather from Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 today, there's nothing to suggest the man's death and the bullying he was subjected to are in any way linked.

Hoodlum said:
You're right, but they were locked away in asylums and subjected to involuntary, brain damaging, electroshock therapy (later renamed "electroconvulsive therapy" to make it sound more acceptable). This, btw, is still legal in this country and no reliable research has shown it to be at all effective.
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ECT is very effective as a temporary fix for a wide range of mental illnesses. Aside from the following short bout of memory loss it is free from side effects.
 
Nickg said:
worse:

http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/39Feral39-teenagers-beat-man-to.2222942.jp

they only got manslaughter....

"Mr Atherton, described by prosecuting barrister Patrick Harrington QC as "alone, alcoholic and mentally dysfunctional", was forced into letting the gang use his flat on St Katherine's Way in Warrington to drink and smoke cannabis.
The teenagers subjected him to regular abuse and humiliation - a practice they called "terroring".

The abuse included pouring bleach and Pot Noodles onto him, daubing his face with ink and make-up, burning his hair, urinating on him and vandalising his flat. It also included regular beatings, of increasing ferocity."

""Ultimately, and almost inevitably, the result was that the two defendants killed Mr Atherton by beating him savagely and throwing him into the River Mersey on May 8 last year."
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I remember that one from last year, it was sickening at the time, they murdered the guy but didn't get done for murder because they didn't basically actually hold him underwater so he drowned. It was their fault he was in the river, but he could have saved himself basically, the drowning was supposedly not entirely their fault.

The fact he had been savagely beaten so was probably weak, hurt and maybe barely concious, it was a truly awful decision, horrific infact and completely wrong. Those are two people that, well, were like the Jamie Bulger case but worse, they hurt him over a long period, when no one helped, two truly awful individuals who did the same things over and over repeatedly. Those two should have been locked up for life with no chance of getting out, maybe to put in on the frontline during a war as cannon fodder, or hard labour for life.
 
I get around said:
It isn't societys responsibility, it's down to the parents. And this is why there are so many bad parents, they don't realise that it is THEIR responsibility what their kids get up to. It is their responibility to instill a sense of right and wrong, to teach their kid that being jobless is a bad thing and that being part of a wrongdoing gang makes you scum.
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And it is the society that shapes the people who are parents. You pay taxes for education and social services. The fact that no one (police included) intervened until somebody died is ridiculous.

You can blame it on society, drugs, violence on tv or whatever you like but ultimately it comes down to bad parenting. People think the television is a babysitter nowadays I swear because even people at my age are a bunch of lazy idiots who don't take anything seriously.
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And people are shaped by the society around them. Those parents included.

There will always be bad parents, this is a reality. Society needs to account for reality. Sitting back and letting things like this happen due to the failure of service after service (Social services allowing children to grow up in a destructive environment, schools failing to educate them, police failing to protect the public, courts failing to take appropriate measures) which we pay through the nose for is not acceptable. I, personally, am absolutely disgusted with the number of failures allowing things like this to happen. I am surprised others do not seem to care their tax money is essentially being thrown away on non-functional services.

And that is my point, people get killed for stupid reasons throughout time, but it is more and more common that people are sick and selfish, with no knowledge of right and wrong.
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How on earth can you quantify that? You would have had to walk all paths in life throughout massive spans of time to make such a judgement objectively.
 
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russ0r said:
ECT is very effective as a temporary fix for a wide range of mental illnesses. Aside from the following short bout of memory loss it is free from side effects.
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Electrically induced seizers are exactly that, nothing more than seizers. They are not a "fix" for anything. The World Health Organisation agree with this, having called for and spearheaded a campaign for a worldwide ban of this barbaric practice. I know of no higher authority I can cite on the matter.
 
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